Lost manners

[Mojave Jack]

I'm in complete agreement Jack, I just wish my vernacular would allow me to word such things so beautifully.:eusa_clap

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words and feedback!

I think it's not just the isolationism caused by TV, DVDs, etc, but the "it's cool to be rude" message that permeates so much of popular culture these days. Popular music, video games like Grand Theft Auto, movies and TV reinforce these "values." Nor is it just younger people. Yesterday, a middle-aged woman in a mini van tried to run me off the road. She looked old enough to be from the generation where parents still taught manners (of course even then the lesson didn't take with everyone).

Very true! I particularly agree with the damage being wrought by the video games that propogate very questionable values. The argument that "it's only a video game" really doesn't hold water, either; it's still a process of dehumanization and increasing insensitivity. The question of removing one's hat is simply an extension of that insensitivity towards others. It may seem like a simple gesture, but the rules of social etiquette serve to remind us that we are part of a society, and not a collection of individuals. The Civil War illustrated that fact effectively. Prior to the Civil War, when referring to the United States, it was common to say "the United States are..." Following the Civil War, it became common practice to say "the United States is..." meaning that it is a single, unified nation vs. a collection of individual states. The distinction is a minor one, seemingly one of just semantics, but the implications are huge. The same is true of all those small gestures of etiquette we make in our daily lives. The distinction between not removing your hat in a bar and removing your hat in someone's home or office serves the same subtle, but meaningful, purpose.

 

[jpdesign]

Actually it was common to say "These United States" before the civil war, and "The United States" after.

Jimmy

 

[Feng_Li]

I'm not entirely sold on the video games argument; I think we have cause and symptom reversed again. A person plays and enjoys a football video game because he has a prior interest in football. I don't know of anyone who began with no interest in football and decided to start playing it in real life because of the video game.

Similarly, I don't know that such video games cause people to engage in rude behavior such as shooting up schools so much as they indicate that these people already think that being rude is entertaining.

Of course, proclaiming that you enjoy being rude is itself rude, but one suspects the irony is lost...

 

[TaxMan1]

OK. So, I'm going to the Lightning hockey game tonight in my straw hat. Hat OK inside, except when standing for the National Anthem, right?

 

[staggerwing]

That was exactly what I said. Like it has been stated in some of the other posts here: A lot of people - especially sportfans - doesn't even remove their "stupid" ballcaps or fancaps/hats, when the danish national anthem is played. But they do stand up - and they sing their hearts out!!!

I went to a game in Yankee Stadium years ago. The Yankees were playing the Montreal Expos. When they played the Canadian anthem, mose of the fans booed and hissed and threw food and trash.

 

[TaxMan1]

I went to a game in Yankee Stadium years ago. The Yankees were playing the Montreal Expos. When they played the Canadian anthem, mose of the fans booed and hissed and threw food and trash.

Wait! No! Get out! New York? lol

 

[Mojave Jack]

I'm not entirely sold on the video games argument; I think we have cause and symptom reversed again. A person plays and enjoys a football video game because he has a prior interest in football. I don't know of anyone who began with no interest in football and decided to start playing it in real life because of the video game.

Similarly, I don't know that such video games cause people to engage in rude behavior such as shooting up schools so much as they indicate that these people already think that being rude is entertaining.

Of course, proclaiming that you enjoy being rude is itself rude, but one suspects the irony is lost...

Granted; cause and effect in society is very hard to determine, and is much more likely to be a cascading, reciprocal effect. It certainly cannot be argued that video games of the violent variety are re-enforcing responsible social behavior, though! There are no video games that give points for helping old ladies across the street, just ones that give points for running them over. Whether or not they're re-enforcing anti-social tendencies is clearly difficult to demonstrate, but there is sufficient evidence that they cause a certain amount of desensitivity to violence and a likelihood to resort to violence in stressful situations. It's not limited to video games, to be fair. Witness the kid who nearly killed his little brother when he hit him with a baseball bat thinking that it wouldn't hurt him. He had seen it done in a cartoon and the character wasn't hurt, after all. Here's an interesting study that notes that while up to 47 percent of kids will mimic violent behavior that they witness on TV, 87 percent will mimic positive behaviors: Research on the Effects of Media Violence. Perhaps we need a video game that gives points for being courteous and polite, and for removing your hat under socially correct circumstances!

 

[Pat_H]

Interesting group of posts.

When I was a kid, somebody trained me to take my hat off. I have no idea who, or when, but it's stuck. I instinctively take my hat off indoors, and actually field quite odd if I wear one indoors.

Having said that, I spend a lot of time outdoors, and frequently wear a cowboy hat, fitting into that occupation, partially, anyway. In some areas its become the rule that people do not ask cowboys to take their hats off indoors (although I always do). They're expensive hats, and in the modern hatless world, there's often no better place to have one, if you wore one, than on your head. The era when there was a place to store your hat while eating, etc., seems to have passed.

 

[J.B.]

OK. So, I'm going to the Lightning hockey game tonight in my straw hat. Hat OK inside, except when standing for the National Anthem, right?

And also if you find it necessary to fling it onto the ice in disgust at an opposing team player who is high-sticking!

On second thought -- hold on to your own Stetson. Instead, throw your neighbor's baseball cap! [huh]

 

[Feng_Li]

Perhaps we need a video game that gives points for being courteous and polite, and for removing your hat under socially correct circumstances!

This and this would seem to qualify.

 

[Mojave Jack]

This and this would seem to qualify.

Bravo! Very fun stuff! I admit, though, I chose evening dress instead of a period costume for the Victorian Fancy Ball. :eusa_doh: Lost a couple points there!