Made in China - Monarch A-2 repros

[ButteMT61]

Production of low-priced goods can only come back to the US (or to Germany, for that matter) when labour there is cheap enough to support the low prices. Do you want to live in that country?Let's face it: It tis the customers, you and me and Uncle Willy, who decide ethis every day. We want to pay no money for food, clothing, shoes, toys? Then we get no-nutricion meat, cheap-looking shirts, boxy glued shoes, and baby-poisioning wooden blocks for the little we want to spend. I'm by no means a "China-lover" and I know the country a bit, living a couple of years not too far from guygardner's avatar, but he's right: The table was set by America and Europe and the Chinese simply knew how to play the game. They want it cheap? They get it cheap. Money is all these westerners care about.But before we embark on a kind of Dr.-Fu-Man-Chu-theme, these days production already leaves China again, partly because the government want to push the low end out, partly because others are even cheaper (and more ruthless when it comes to poisioning the environment). Anyway, it is the customers who decide. When I tell anybody a pair of shoes sets me back 200 Euros, they declare me mad on the spot. But quality has a price. And cheap goods have a price, too, but the currency is other than money.

You are right, but the "we" who don't want to pay for it does not include me. I'll take fewer items of better quality and made here over the alternative almost every time. It takes some work, and you don't get cheap, but I'm OK with that. You surely can make good things here in the States and be reasonable. You just don't build your factory of trained/skilled craftspeople in NY city or LA.

 

[Edward]

OTOH, The Chinese as a whole have no problem copying, stealing and otherwise profiting off of intellectual property, music, films, etc. I know quite a few Chinese and they are fantastic people, but the Reigning powers in China leave a lot to be desired. I'm also sick of barely being able to find anything not made in China when shopping - it's depressing as h*ll. You could easily replace China with any number of places, so I don't think it's people not liking the Chinese, per se. H*ll, I'm sick of all the American bashing. But then I just look at the jackets mocking me waiting for the temps to drop and I'm all good again lol

I've never had any kind of 'patriotic' vision as a consumer, but then my awareness as such doesn't date back to a time when there was a manufacturing industry of any major scale around me. Can't be bothered with silliness about certain things being superior by dint of simple geography (I've seen people in all seriousness make the most ridiculous claims over, of all things, electric guitars made in certain places), though what does give me pause for thought (and one reason why some things I will seek out locally, especially food) is the environmental impact of consumer disposables travelling so far around the world.

The Chinese are a difficult one for the IP. essentially, the problem is that it was simply an alien concept to them for so long, and it does take time to get past that. Things are starting to turn now, though, the two big drivers being the value to the PRC of working with the big IP rightholders, and the increasing perception o value to IPR in domestic innovations. It will take time to fully take root, but it has begun.

Completely agree about the old generalizations. China is a big place with many different local cultures.

I would say Beijingers are animal lovers, and not because of Western influence or the market economy. The old guys with their shih-tzus are not rich, but living in the old neighbourhoods much the way people there have been for decades, well, at least as long as the old neighbourhoods remain.

Speaking of western influence in China though, I did notice the last time I was there, that thrift stores selling American brands (old leather jackets and denim) were becoming more common. Of course the prices were crazy compared to what you would pay in Canada or the States. Around 3 times as much.

Yes, it is quite incredible. Good old Clarks shoes go for three times the price out there as they fetch at home in England, and that's before you adjust relative to local economy. I suppose it's a mix of things - Clarks out there have the perceived brand worth that some of the big US names have done here at times. Back in the mid Eighties, a second hand pair of ex-prison issue uniform 501s would easily fetch GBP35 and up over here (they can readily be found for less new now, almost thirty years later...). There certainly is the moneyed class in modern China can afford it - Shanghai alone has more millionaire citizens than the whole of the UK. Just like the West, they have all the extremes, and with a billion people....

The Chinese government was just smart enough to win at the game set by western governments and western business. No one forced western companies to lay off their workers and relocate to China. Why did our governments allow companies to relocate, laying off local workers (and destroying unions), in search of cheaper labor to exploit? How is this China's fault?

By the way, the race to the bottom continues, as denim factories in China are now relocating just as workers there get a better deal, closing factories and laying off workers.

Yes, it's interesting watching this with clothing, as I've seen it happen for years with electric guitars. First it was Japan, then Korea, then Mexico and China, and now Vietnam, India, and others. Africa is rumoured to be next. At every stage plenty of folks wanted to sneer at the product as inferior because of where it was made, but gradually they were proven wrong. Japanese electric guitars are now among the most sought after, and China is fast becoming the new Japan for a second time. Interesting watching these trends develop, especially as there is only so far down you can go before you have compromised so far on quality and ethics of production that the market objects (moreso quality, though as consumers become more aware and more ethically demanding, production conditions do matter to many). Who knows if it will come full circle once everywhere is effectively charging the same.... I wouldn't be sure.

 

[Sloan1874]

I remember in the early 90s, there was a thing about Mexican Stratocasters - they were cheaper, implicitly not as good - but nowadays I'm not sure the differentiation is as clear or deserved.

 

[ButteMT61]

It's not always because everything "we" make is better. Clearly, that's not always the case. It's the matter of employment and not relying upon another country(ies) for our goods. That's about 100% of my reasoning. I buy items made in UK, Scotland, Germany, Russia, etc. as they're the best of what I want. All things being equal, I'd like my dollars to stay here and employ Americans. No hate there, no hubris that we always do it better, just economics and pride.

 

[John in Covina]

States that want jobs often give tax benefits to companies that relocate.
Much of the business leaving California is going to Arizona, Texas and in some cases Nevada.

 

[guygardner]

Not clothing, but still kind of on topic:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57...ersal-chinese-pc-firm-to-manufacture-in-u.s./