New U.S. Air Force uniform protoypes

[Matt Deckard]

They are the one branch that doesn't really need to swithc over to a strict camo policy as they don't really head out into the field carrying a rifle...

Reproducing the Hap Arnold and Billy Mitchell styles that the Army wore in the 20's and the 40's.

I like the high collared 20's style... very old school aviator and they don't have to worry about the fuss of a tie.
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123020472


Still protypes, though I like the looks.

 

[DanielJones]

Looks like they're trying to emulate the Marine Corps Dress Blues. Interesting.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[Matt Deckard]

To be quite honest, the uniform they are rehashing predates the Marine Corps uniforms... The Army had the look first... the aircorps was the Army exempli gratia... The Marine corpes coppied the Army!

 

[The Wingnut]

No, no, a thousand times NO on the Air Service style Mandarin collar. The polyester of my current blues uniform makes it horrifically hot on a warm day(I wore it to church yesterday, north Texas summer be damned...changed immediately when I got back to the dorm), and having my neck sealed off by the thing would be a nightmare. Not only that, but it prevents removal of the jacket as no presentalbe collared shirt could feasably be worn beneath it.

The USAAF four-pocket with wide peaked lapels is a great idea, but the lapels kill off ribbons and badges...my Air Corps uniforms do this with little more than two rows of ribbons and a pair of wings. Some of our staff sergeants have virtual billboards on their blues, and up to two different badges. They have problems with the 'blazer' we have now. AFI 36-2903 states 'all or nothing' when it comes to ribbons...we can't pick and choose like Ike.

Neat ideas, really. It's an open admission that the current uniform is bland as all get out...problem is that neither of these are a good solution. A return to the '50s four pocket with more subtle lapels would probably be a good compromise.

.

 

[Matt Deckard]

You guys have way too many ribbons!

 

[Matt Deckard]

You guys have way too many ribbons!

WHY?

 

[NewMexExpat]

The polyester of my current blues uniform makes it horrifically hot on a warm day......

Wingnut, ask your very oldest old-timers about the 1505s ("fifteen-oh-fives"). I never got to wear them, but have been told they were the most comfortable uniform the "modern" Air Force ever had; they were cotton. But that was one of the problems, no one wanted to iron. (Which is silly -- do you know anyone who doesn't iron and starch their poly-wool shirts? And what's with that? Wool in a shirt? Talk about scratchy!) The other problem was that they were a khaki color (or "tan" for you WWII Pinks-and-Greens" purists.)

The USAAF four-pocket with wide peaked lapels is a great idea, .....

Neat ideas, really. It's an open admission that the current uniform is bland as all get out...problem is that neither of these are a good solution. A return to the '50s four pocket with more subtle lapels would probably be a good compromise.

General Merrill A. McPeak is the father of the current "airline pilot's", three-button "business suit" . In a service not yet 50 years old (at the time), many felt it killed all sense of tradition in our uniforms. There were two exceptions to this, only one of which survived implementation: The "Hap Arnold Crest" on the buttons (currently in use), and the short-lived Navy- /R.A.F.-like officer insignia on the sleeves of the jackets. (I see it's resurgence in the current prototypes.) I believe he also did away with the Service Cap ("wheel Hat", "Bus Driver Cap"), leaving the flight cap as the only blue headgear, (rather informal cermonies/parades) and leaving no option for a hat with the mess dress. While the current options look like a return to some traditions, it also continues a "to-and-fro" not conducive to building lasting tradition.

I like the high collar for a ceremonial uniform. The USAF Ceremonial Band and the USAF Honor Guard have been wearing it for some time now. But I think I agree with you about a return to the four-pocket, four-button design for a regular Service Dress Uniform. And let's stick to the old AFR 35-10 (predecessor to AFI 36-2903) uniform principle of "simple, yet distinctive". That is to say, no adoption of additional sets of required uniforms, like the other services have. As one of our old Drum Majors said when comparing his baldric and mace to those of the Marine Band: "The Marines are much more full of Regalia than are we."

Best of Luck in your career, and thanks for your service.
Airpower!

- Mark
SMSgt, USAF, (Ret.)

 

[DanielJones]

To be quite honest, the uniform they are rehashing predates the Marine Corps uniforms... The Army had the look first... the aircorps was the Army exempli gratia... The Marine corpes coppied the Army!

Sorry to say Matt but the army has copied the Marine Corps. They have had banded collars on their uniforms since 1775. The original collar was a copy of the British Royal Marines leather collar, and hence their moniker of "Leather Necks". The banded collar has been their socalled trademark ever since.

1855 Tunic.

I think our fellow Marine, "Lieutenant", may be able to shed a little more light onto the history of the Marines Tunic.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[WNNFL]

Leatherneck Explained.

Having served both in the USMC (back in the days of heavily starched santeen utilities worn with heavily starched & hand blocked covers) and the US Army let me shed some light on this. The Marine Corps prides itself on its traditions. The Dress Blue uniform reflects a number of these traditions to include the standing collar, the redstripes on the trousers of the NCOs & Officers, the trefoil on the officers service cap, the officer's sword etc. The USMC was founded as an amphibious fighting force. The Marines served aboard ships were they had many duties. In times of combat they were stationed in the "fighting tops" (i.e platforms loacated high up on the ship's masts) as sharphooters. Their goal was to eliminate those in command of the enemy vessel. In addition, the Marines served on boarding parties or as defense against boarding parties. As part of their uniform, the Marines wore high leather collars as "armor" (protection) against edged weapons. Thus, the nickname "leather neck". The standing collar of the USMC Dress Blue Uniform is in honor of , and a traditional reflection of, that leather collar and the early days of the Corps. The Army traditionally wore standing collars as part of their dress (and some "service") uniforms for decades-out of a sense of fashion; not tradition like the Marines. Note that the official Army color is blue, not green as is oft thought. This dates back to the Contential Army uniforms of the American revolution. After WWI the Army made two significant changes to its uniforms. 1. They changed all but the dress uniforms from blue to green (and later Khaki) and 2. Switched from standing collars to the "rolled collar" which is still worn today.

 

[The Wingnut]

You guys have way too many ribbons!

WHY?

Depends on the individual, really. Some have very few, others have tons. It's dependant on your job and your drive, and how often you deploy.

I personally have 5 already: Basic Training, National Defense Service, Expert Marksman, Honor Graduate, and Global War on Terrorisim Service.

It's funny that we're coming full circle. If it works, don't mess with it! Let the Marines keep their collar, we should get our four-pockets back...and the propwing device!

 

[MudInYerEye]

1. They changed all but the dress uniforms from blue to green (and later Khaki)

Perhaps I am mistaken, but doesn't the Army have a current dress blue uniform? My father, a retired officer, still has his.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Standing collars and the land services

Note that the following is from a bored SWO-to-be who knows some really boring stuff.

The Marines don't have a special claim to standing collars on uniforms... for that matter, neither does the Army (or it's "spin-off" the Air Force).

The current Dress Blue uniform dates from the 1859 regulations and came from... the French Army along with the trefoil and the kepi (prior to that little spat with Prussia in the early 1870's, France was well martially respected). Before that, the Marines, like every other well respected military in the western world, wore in descending order: full frock coats, high collared coatees and stand-and-fall collar coats with vests and pantaloons.

Hmm... frock coats... with closed collars... wait, that's just like the coat adopted by the Army in 1851. Wait, those are almost the same as the shell jacket used in the Mexican War but with knee-length skirts.

WNNFL- Yes, the Army wore standing collars out of fashion, but then again so did the Marine Corps after 1858 when the leather was removed from the fatigue uniforms. Indeed, both the Army and the Marines continued in this 'fashion' until 1927 and 1928, respectively. Both arms kept, however the standing collar on dress uniforms until the 1950's when the Army adopted the then new Army Blue Uniform.

MudInYerEye- Not only does the Army have a blue uniform, but by 2011, it will replace the Army Green and Army White uniforms and service and dress wear. http://www.army.mil/symbols/uniforms/index.html

 

[Mojave Jack]

No, no, a thousand times NO on the Air Service style Mandarin collar. The polyester of my current blues uniform makes it horrifically hot on a warm day(I wore it to church yesterday, north Texas summer be damned...changed immediately when I got back to the dorm), and having my neck sealed off by the thing would be a nightmare. Not only that, but it prevents removal of the jacket as no presentalbe collared shirt could feasably be worn beneath it.

The USAAF four-pocket with wide peaked lapels is a great idea, but the lapels kill off ribbons and badges...my Air Corps uniforms do this with little more than two rows of ribbons and a pair of wings. Some of our staff sergeants have virtual billboards on their blues, and up to two different badges. They have problems with the 'blazer' we have now. AFI 36-2903 states 'all or nothing' when it comes to ribbons...we can't pick and choose like Ike.

Neat ideas, really. It's an open admission that the current uniform is bland as all get out...problem is that neither of these are a good solution. A return to the '50s four pocket with more subtle lapels would probably be a good compromise.

.

I have to agree with Wingnut on the stand-up collar, as much as I like the idea. While I really miss my Marine Corps dress blues, I don't miss being strangled by the collar every time I sat down. The Alphas (Class "A" for Army and Air Force) were much more practical for most occasions.

Now that I'm in the Air Force, I'll go to any length to avoid wearing the McPeak/JC Penney suit. It just makes me feel like a slob. I like the Hap Arnold prototype, though. To solve the ribbon problem, the Air Force just has to stop giving away medals or ribbons for every little event, like graduating from basic training! If you're wearing the uniform, then you graduated from boot camp, for cryin' out loud!

 

[Matt Deckard]

I don't understand the glut of ribbons either. Used to be signs of accomplishment... with so many it dilutes the purpose.

What ones can they remove without losing their sense of accomplishment. What ones are superfluous?

 

[VintageJess]

I don't understand the glut of ribbons either. Used to be signs of accomplishment... with so many it dilutes the purpose.

What ones can they remove without losing their sense of accomplishment. What ones are superfluous?

Matt,

Well, I have to say that from what I've seen the Marine Corps is still pretty darn stingy about awarding ribbons. I did notice at our last Marine Corps Ball that there were a lot of young enlisted Marines walking around with more medals and ribbons that you would expect, but I think in large part this reflects the increase in operational tempo over the last few years. You might have a young Marine deploying to a combat zone two or three times in just one hitch.

Case in point: I can recall being at the exchange on Camp Lejeune in early November 2004 (right around Birthday Ball time.) I overhead the cashier tell the young Marine ahead of me in line that they had run out of Purple Heart medals. I think in the few years prior to that, a conversation like that would have been unheard of.

Jessica

 

[Mojave Jack]

Well, the obvious one is the Air Force Training Ribbon. Basically, it is awarded to everyone, without exception. The criteria for earning it is to complete "initial accession training," i.e. boot camp. Not just Air Force boot camp, mind you, since I was given the Air Force training ribbon simply because I had completed a boot camp (Marine Corps) and was on active duty in 1986.


Other superflous ribbons are:
NCO Professional Military Education Graduate ribbon: for graduating form an in-residence course? So what. NCOs are expected to be professional are they shouldn't be promoted.

Longevity Service Award: put hash marks back on the cuffs, where they belong

Air Force Expeditionary Service Medal: just a duplicate of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, which you can earn simultaneously. What's the point of that?

Air Force Recruiting Ribbon: awarded to individuals who perform the "challenging" job of recruiting! lol Hanging out at high schools and malls is "challenging"?

Military Training Instructor ribbon: It's their job. If they excel, give them one of the established medals for superior performance, like the Air Force Commendation or Air Force Achievement.

It's really getting out of hand. As an example, here's my current rack:

It includes the Air Force Commendation Medal, Navy Achievement Medal, AF Outstanding Unit Award, Navy Unit Commendation, Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal, Air Reserve Forces Meritorious Service Medal, National Defense Service Medal, Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Armed Forces Service Medal, Sea Service Deployment Ribbon, AF Longevity Service, Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon (Rifle), Navy Expert Rifle Medal

When I recently logged in to see of they'd finally processed my Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal (which they haven't) I found that I had been awarded the Air Reserve Forces Meritorious Service Medal! I have no idea why! Apparently I haven't gotten a medal in while and I was up for one! I was also awarded the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award, but I have no idea which of the four units I've served with rated that medal, and which operation I was awarded the medal for! Might have been Bosnia, Afghanistan, or Iraq; who knows! They just hand these things out every now and then!

 

[Matt Deckard]

Well... as long as you have more thant the other guy's millatary... that's all that counts.

 

[skillbilly]

To be quite honest, the uniform they are rehashing predates the Marine Corps uniforms... The Army had the look first... the aircorps was the Army exempli gratia... The Marine corpes coppied the Army!

That's true, but the Corps made it look good

 

[Willi_Goat]

I hate the business suit we have now. I like the looks of the Mitchell, but have to agree with Wingnut, there is no taking the jacket off until you get home. Although as much as I wear one it would not be too big a deal. When I am performing Honor Guard duties we always wear the service dress and sweat it out until we finish. The lapels on the Hap one are just too wide.

NewMex, I do not know of anyone that liked much of McPeak's changes. At least some of things he did were changed. They brought back the service cap a few years ago. I went out and grabbed one since no one else seems to wear one. It kind of goes against the rule about not standing out, but I like it anyway. I still have not figured out the v-neck t-shirt deal. I was thinking maybe he wanted a manlier Air Force showing off that chest hair. And of course, the BDUs came full circle, putting all the patches back on.

Jack, the Reserve Forces Meritorious Service Medal is the reserve equivalent of the Air Force Good Conduct Medal, which I hear they are doing away with. I just hit the 20 year mark and sometimes get embarrassed by the number of decorations on my uniform. Most are meaningless which seems to cheapen the ones actually earned for doing something above and beyond. Heck, I picked up five from my rotations to the desert over the past few years.

 

[boomerchop]

Senior three

I always liked that the Navy allowed you to wear just your senior three ribbons. Less junk on the uniform; leave it to their imagination what else you are entitled to.

The recent Navy is as guilty as all the rest with the glut of ribbons and breast insignia. It really has gotten out of hand.