P-38s in ETO

[Naphtali]

I seldom read of P-38 aircraft in use in Europe while I often read of them being used in the Pacific. Why?

As I understand the air war, Mitsubishi's Zero was, perhaps, more maneuverable than Bf/ME 109s and FW 190s, so probably any P-38 disability when used against a Messerschmitt or Focke Wulf would also occur against a Zero?

 

[Fletch]

The Wiki on the Allison V-12 says it was unreliable at the high altitudes required in the ETO. Meanwhile the 8th AF equipped with P-47s and (Merlin powered) P-51s.

 

[Cascadian]

I think for one thing, the Lightning was used in greater numbers in the Pacific, where its long range relative to other fighters was better suited for over-water operations (witness the Yamamoto mission). While the Zero was more maneuverable, the P-38 was faster and more heavily armed.

 

[GentleJohnny]

P-38's were also on the flanks of the invasion force on June 6, 1944. Due to their distinct shape, they could mark the flanks and not be accidentally shot down by those thinking they were incoming enemy aircraft. Just a little bit of trivia you can throw at your pals that love Army Air Corps!

 

[Jovan]

I thought this thread was about this. :eusa_doh:

 

[Dixon Cannon]

P-38's were also on the flanks of the invasion force on June 6, 1944. Due to their distinct shape, they could mark the flanks and not be accidentally shot down by those thinking they were incoming enemy aircraft. Just a little bit of trivia you can throw at your pals that love Army Air Corps!

And that "Forked-Tail Devil" looked just beautiful wearing her 'Invasion Stripes' that day too!

-dixon cannon

 

[Dixon Cannon]

I thought this thread was about this. :eusa_doh:

No Silly! That's another thread!...we're still trying to get this thing to fly! lol

-dixon cannon

 

[Murph351]

Ton of P-38 info: http://p38assn.org/index.htm

 

[Spitfire]

(please delete)

 

[mtechthang]

Also issues of "man hours" on the Merlin

Though the Merlin was superior to the Allison on altitude issues, there were significant "man hour" issues in producing the Rolls engines (the Merlin). I've forgotten more of this than I'm comfortable with but here is something from the "Axis History forum"
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=136177&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30

"Comparisons between Allison engine and the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine are inevitable. What can be said for the Allison is that its part count was nearly half that of the Merlin engine which facilitated mass production greatly. The British-made Merlin engines were to a degree still reliant upon hand crafted and fitted parts from skilled craftsmen. There also was a very high degree of commonality of parts throughout the series. The individual parts of the Allison series were produced to a very high degree of standardization and reliability with the best technology available at the time."

As I remember it, the armor issues were more "friendly" toward Pacific uses as well.

 

[Story]

Ton of P-38 info: http://p38assn.org/index.htm

Youse guys might want to read this thread:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=29165

 

[Dixon Cannon]

A couple of random Lockheed P-38 Lightning items to follow

The Lockheed P-38 Lightning mural at the Hollywood-Burbank-Glendale (Bob Hope) Airport, California

-dixon cannon

 

[Dixon Cannon]

The late Jeffrey Ethell, who's father piloted 'Tangerine' in the ETO. Photos the last of
Jeff before he bought the farm in this aircraft in Tillamook, OR. A tragic loss of man and machine.
http://www.aafo.com/news/old/ethell.htm

-dixon cannon

 

[Dixon Cannon]

A great John Dibbs photo, in his unique, close-up, flash-filled, air-to-air style, as only he can do them.
-dixon cannon

 

[KilroyCD]

The late Jeffrey Ethell, who's father piloted 'Tangerine Dream' in the ETO. Photos the last of
Jeff before he bought the farm in this aircraft in Tillamook, OR. A tragic loss of man and machine.
http://www.aafo.com/news/old/ethell.htm


-dixon cannon

Dixon,
Thank you for posting that great photo of Jeff. He was a very good friend of mine, and I had the pleasure of doing a number of air-to-air photo sorties with him (including my very first). He was also my editor during the time I wrote for EAA Warbirds Magazine, and I helped him with some Spitfire research for his books. He was a great guy, and he is still greatly missed.

 

[GentleJohnny]

And that "Forked-Tail Devil" looked just beautiful wearing her 'Invasion Stripes' that day too!

-dixon cannon

I bet they looked great! Especially strafing some Kraut positions!

 

[Fletch]

No '38 ever looked classier than Glacier Girl.

The Avirex-style nose art and cheezy stick-on lettering are unfortunate, but the latter is apparently required by FAA regs. The former is just a natural occurrence when you get men, machines, and commercial artists together.

 

[Pip]

Extensively used in the ETO in a photo reconnaissance role, provided the bulk of aircraft for most Photo Groups, although known as the F5 rather than the P38.

Have yet to see one in the flesh, so VERY much looking forward to finally seeing Glacier Girl

 

[Twitch]

The real reason that the P-38 was not as successful in the ETO as in the Pacific is due to one thing only. They were not well designed for cold, damp weather. That is the whole thing. The operational altitudes required on a regular basis over the Continent were not at all in the P-38's reportoire.

Heaters were poor and no matter how otherwise good your plane is there is nothing positive to say about a plane whose defrosters made seeing outside the canopy difficult.

They did a bit better around the Med where they could handle themselves at medium altitudes but at low altitudes they found themselves outclassed by the enemy aircraft they met.

Over the Pacific it was a completely different set of operational stategies combined with alltogether more favorable weather, machines and enemy tactics encountered.

 

[dhermann1]

Packard Merlins

This issue was duiscussed on another WW II thread, I believe. When Packard started manufacturing Merlin engines, their engineers made quite a number of major mods which simplified construction. Several assemblies made of several parts were replaced with single easier to produce parts. Most of these mods were adapted by the British makers as well.