Red liner for Fed Dlx...

[fatwoul]

OK, so the liner of my Fed Dlx was starting to look pretty ropey. It already had brown marks on it, from where the colour had run onto it when I wet the headband (some water dribbled onto the liner and took some dye with it). A couple of nights ago I left a belt inside the hat, and that left some black marks which wouldn't come out even when I handwashed it. Those marks were the last straw. I know it's only the liner, but still, it looked tatty.

Deb at hatsdirect is sending me a replacement liner. Just a plain white one but thats fine. Since I have that one coming, I decided to mess about with the old liner. I picked it apart, laid the pieces out flat and made a pattern from them with greaseproof paper (like my mother does when she makes dresses). I used the plastic film sweatcap from the original Akubra liner, and some red satin material I found in a drawer, And made a red liner:

Now, go easy on my cos its my first attempt (and not far from my first attempt at sewing more than a button!), but what do you think? Is it OK for liners to be as loose/baggy as this, or do they have to be neater? If so, is there a tutorial anywhere about making them, or a hatter willing to talk me through how to make one? Really, its the curve of the fabric that seems to be the most important thing, and this one still isn't right - I made a white one before this, but that one was a disaster cos I didn't put enough curve on the original fabric I cut out, but I suspect the red one has too much curve.

By the way, the liner is perfectly comfortable - moreso than the original, in fact, because the material is a little nicer. But does it look OK??

Help!

 

[Art Fawcett]

Wish I could help Fatwoul, but this is a pretty tough request. I've tried the same thing you did in different fabrics and got the same poor result. A true fitting liner should not have any of the "twists" you have in yours. It should come straight up the sides with little or no wrinkle. This is why I get mine made from the pro's, it's too much for me.

 

[Duck]

Looks good fatwoul!!! I have seen some liners that were that loose on other hats. The red liner looks great, I like it!!!!!:eusa_clap

 

[surely]

But does it look OK??

Does it look like a traditional liner? NO
Does it look OK? No It looks GREAT!

 

[carter]

Most hats have a straight, unwrinkled liner. However a couple of my older hats have what appears to be a lot of excess liner. This is true in a 40's Knox that I have and, I believe, in a Stylepark that AF has at his shop. What the heck, you're getting a new liner so why not make the attempt. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[fatwoul]

Wish I could help Fatwoul, but this is a pretty tough request. I've tried the same thing you did in different fabrics and got the same poor result. A true fitting liner should not have any of the "twists" you have in yours. It should come straight up the sides with little or no wrinkle. This is why I get mine made from the pro's, it's too much for me.

Ah I suspected as much. Thanks anyway for your reply, Art. I'll leave it in for now, until the white replacement comes. I may still fiddle around with it a little - part of the problem is that, because the first prototype was effectively too small, I deliberately made this one too big, so there is more fabric up inside the hat than there was.

Yes, the twists are tiresome. You get one part straight, and another twists. I left the back of the liner open, as with the "pro" ones, so the pieces can overlap as needed, but that doesn't seem to quite do it.

Its possible i could get a slightly better result by attaching the liner to the hat at key points, but obviously I don't want to attach it if I have a proper liner on the way.

The problem will continue to bug me, because it's essentially a maths problem, and those irritate me more than they should.

Looks good fatwoul!!! I have seen some liners that were that loose on other hats. The red liner looks great, I like it!!!!!:eusa_clap

Does it look like a traditional liner? NO
Does it look OK? No It looks GREAT!

Aww thanks guys. I do quite like it in a quirky way, and I will certainly keep it once it leaves the hat. I think it's one of those problems that I will keep trying to figure out, because in my mind the task is pretty simple. It's just that when I put it into practice something goes wrong.

The twist Art commented on is the key. If I can just work that out...

This will be my working prototype.

Oh, and you know what else? It's much warmer than the original liner! Because it's baggier, it's in better contact with my head, and I guess traps more warm air because of its larger surface area. So I might be putting it back in during the winter.

 

[fatwoul]

...What the heck, you're getting a new liner so why not make the attempt. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Thanks carter - exactly my thoughts, too. And anyway, so long as I learn one thing, I have gained something.

I have to say, I do prefer the red to white. This material is very nice, and I have plenty more of it to work with if I ever figure out how to get a better result, or if someone can point me in the right direction.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Agreed, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Didn't mean to sound critical Fatwoul, but you did ask in an open fashion so I gave an honest open answer. The geometry to get a liner made right is a real bear and is too much for me to get professional results. As your first attempt and with a new liner on the way, red works.

 

[fatwoul]

Agreed, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Didn't mean to sound critical Fatwoul, but you did ask in an open fashion so I gave an honest open answer. The geometry to get a liner made right is a real bear and is too much for me to get professional results. As your first attempt and with a new liner on the way, red works.

No, no Art your reply was fine - I wasn't too dejected.

I'd love to get hold of a handful of red liners like this, to put in the cheaper hats I get (obviously I wouldn't replace the liners in my Camptown or AB).

Do you - or anybody else - know of any companies that sell liners to individuals? I know Jimmy Pierce does (I think that was the site I found them on), but he didn't reply to my message. I've Googled til my fingers near fell off, and not found much about liners at all.

Try googling for "fedora" and "liner" and you mostly seem to get pictures of the COW guys on their Queen Mary jaunts! lol

 

[RBH]

Looks Ok, if you should sometime find a hat that has no liner you can sure use this one. I for one like liners in my felt hats.
As for the red, the first Campdraft I saw had the red liner.
When my hat arrived it had the white one, I was kinda disappointed.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Where I get my liners made require 1 gross minimum orders and I don't know of anyone that sells them individually. You might try emailing different long time hatters to see what they have from "days past" & get lucky. I know Optimo changes things yearly and might have some "in the back room" , other small custom hatters may be able to help. Try Rodney Allison, North Valley Hats ( you can search his name on the Lounge & get his website), or John Morse at Rocky Mountain Hat Co., or Jim at JW hats in Salt Lake City. All long time hatters & willing to help if they can.

 

[fatwoul]

Looks Ok, if you should sometime find a hat that has no liner you can sure use this one. I for one like liners in my felt hats....

I do actually have a hat with no liner, and once I have reshaped it, I might try putting this one in.

...As for the red, the first Campdraft I saw had the red liner.
When my hat arrived it had the white one, I was kinda disappointed.

That's right, Akubras used to have red liners, didn't they? I think I heard that talked about.

Where I get my liners made require 1 gross minimum orders and I don't know of anyone that sells them individually. You might try emailing different long time hatters to see what they have from "days past" & get lucky. I know Optimo changes things yearly and might have some "in the back room" , other small custom hatters may be able to help. Try Rodney Allison, North Valley Hats ( you can search his name on the Lounge & get his website), or John Morse at Rocky Mountain Hat Co., or Jim at JW hats in Salt Lake City. All long time hatters & willing to help if they can.

That's great Art thanks so much for all the good pointers there. I'll look these guys up and see what I can find.

 

[J.T.Marcus]

I think it looks great! I remember having seen new hats, that weren't that neat. And you mentioned how comfortable it is. I say, "Well done!"

Regarding your request for a source of ready made liners, these folks tried to sell me some, when I ordered sweatbands:

http://www.hatsupply.com/mens_supplies.htm


Mailing address: Hats by Leko, P.O. Box 170 Odell, OR 97044 (541) 354-2600

 

[indycop]

Fatwoul just wondering did you put it back to open crown when you put the liner in? Since you're experimenting maybe you could make it open crown, put the liner in damp and then fill the hat with something to keep it against the crown until it dries. Then put the bash back in. Probably a dumb idea but water helps shape everything else so maybe worth a try. You could ball up a towel or something to fill the crown. Anyway...... I will go back to watching tv now.

 

[deanglen]

Fatwoul, here's a picture from an '06 thread. Lorne, fellow Lounger, made his own liner:

You might PM him about how it went.

Or, you can order one from these guys:

http://www.hatsupply.com/hatlinings.htm

dean

 

[Edward]

I LOVE the colour of that lining. Actually seems odd to me that so many hats have a white lining, bearing in mind that a darker colour such as the red would be more practical owing to marking less easily?

 

[fatwoul]

I think it looks great! I remember having seen new hats, that weren't that neat. And you mentioned how comfortable it is. I say, "Well done!"

Thanks JT. Like I said, I think it will do for now, at least. Anybody who thinks this one is untidy should see the first one I made!

Regarding your request for a source of ready made liners, these folks tried to sell me some, when I ordered sweatbands...

Thanks for the link. What are those guys like to deal with? Also, do you reckon those liners would be big enough? They look like they might be intended for ladies' hats, so they might be a bit smaller?

Fatwoul just wondering did you put it back to open crown when you put the liner in? Since you're experimenting maybe you could make it open crown, put the liner in damp and then fill the hat with something to keep it against the crown until it dries. Then put the bash back in....

That's certainly worth a try, Indycop. I did pop the bash out and put the liner in open crown, but dry. Also, because I bite my nails o) my ragged fingers would hook onto the liner and pull it back out unless I was careful. Doing it open crown is definitely easier; you just put the bash back in and fiddle the liner a little bit into all the nooks at the end. I might try the damp thing, though, although I'll have to be careful, as I don't want to taper the crown of the hat - that would make the liner even bigger for the space! lol

Fatwoul, here's a picture from an '06 thread. Lorne, fellow Lounger, made his own liner:

You might PM him about how it went...

That's great dg, thanks. I was hoping to find someone else who might have experimented with this. I'll PM him.

Or, you can order one from these guys:

http://www.hatsupply.com/hatlinings.htm

Thanks for the link. Same question I asked JT - reckon their liners will be big enough?

I LOVE the colour of that lining...

Before I first got my Fed Dlx, and I was doing my homework on which hat to get, I noticed that hats now had white liners, when I remember my grandad having a hat with a red one. When I first saw they were now white, I preferred the idea, because I've always found the idea of a red liner to be a bit gory. Part of me always thinks I've taken my scalp off when I see that flash of red. lol

Now, though, I love the red. That's why I'd like to learn how to make and fit accurate liners, perhaps moreso than I would like to learn to make hats themselves. I like the idea of making liners to match suit linings. I have a dark brown suit which has little bits of bright orange trim on the lining. and I tend to wear it with an orange and navy Ted Baker tie. The dark brown of the Fed Dlx goes well with the suit, and I'd quite like to put an orange liner with a navy sweatcap in the hat. When I wear that combination.

If I could figure out the dimentions, and make better liners, I'd probably consider velcroing them in. I know that probably sounds like some kind of hideous crime to the hatters amongst us, but you can get these little very thin velcro patches for the spacer pads in cycle/snowboard helmets - they're very thin and fairly sticky. I reckon if I placed those inside the hat instead of dabs of glue (as per Akubras) I'd be able to change/remove liners with much less hassle. Having said that, this red one is completely unattached, and remains in place simply because it is bigger and fits amply under the headband.

...Actually seems odd to me that so many hats have a white lining, bearing in mind that a darker colour such as the red would be more practical owing to marking less easily?...

I agree that all these fancy colours would also help lessen the effect of stains, etc, but really I'm just doing it cos I like the fancy colours. Most stains (hat dye, sweat, for example) do seem to wash out of the white ones anyway. I don't know about hair dye though...

Anybody amongst us mind confessing to dying their hair? Does hairdye stain liners?

Wow, big post. OK I'm done now.

 

[J.T.Marcus]

Quote: "Thanks for the link. What are those guys like to deal with? Also, do you reckon those liners would be big enough? They look like they might be intended for ladies' hats, so they might be a bit smaller?"

fatwoul, They're easy to deal with. They do have a minimum order. I think it was $35. I've only bought sweatbands from them. They were the same high quality leather, with reed and perforations, just like the current manufacturers use. However, they were not cut to size. I had to do this, then stitch the ends together. They were supplied in a length sufficient for the largest hats. I suspect the same for the liners. In other words, you will have to do some fitting. The quality should be good, though.

 

[Colby Jack]

Bravo on that red lining Fatwoul!

I think linings are so underrated...a striking color/graphic as a liner IMHO really adds to the hat. Heck...I was dumbfounded by trying to make a new ribbon for my panama...
Cheers
Colby Jack

 

[Edward]

I agree that all these fancy colours would also help lessen the effect of stains, etc, but really I'm just doing it cos I like the fancy colours. Most stains (hat dye, sweat, for example) do seem to wash out of the white ones anyway. I don't know about hair dye though...

Not something I'd need to worry about.