The end of civilization

[Alan Eardley]

I have just heard on the BBC radio news that the Barracuda Group (a large chain of UK pubs and bars) has banned hats on its premises.

An 84 year old lady was asked to leave a pub in in Ely (a quiet, small medieval town in the east of England) or remove her hat . The reason given? So she could be identified on CCTV 'security' cameras. Who do they think she is, 'Ma' Barker? Interviewed on radio, she identified a time whan a lady would not dream of entering a pub without a hat.

 

[John in Covina]

An 84 year old lady was asked to leave a pub in in Ely or remove her hat . The reason given? So she could be identified on CCTV 'security' cameras. .

*******
The next choice will be those microchip implants so they can Identfy you even if your inside a roll of carpet or those Islamic Beekeeper type outfits, the Birka.

 

[geo]

The world has officially ended.

 

[Raindog]

Not only is the world ending, it's also being run by idiots and pathetic dribbling yes people.....
If I was that old woman I'd be on the rampage phoning radio stations, putting up posters, raising hell over the pathetic rule. Let's hope they lose loads of business.


Jeff.

 

[budward]

Yeah, that's goofy. Hopefully people will take their hats and money elsewhere. I would.

Bud

 

[Brad Bowers]

Haven't we seen several articles from the U.K. about getting rid of ties? Looks like Great Britain is no longer the last bastion of civilization on Earth.


Brad

 

[BellyTank]

Re: ties, etc:
You should see the Danish Parliament- T-shirts and jeans even!

Here in Denmark, society is pretty casual towards dressing for - but in saying that, Danes are probably amongst the best dressed I've seen when they do dress up. Including me and I'm not Danish.

I think a casual work dress code isn't all bad.

The hat/pub thing is ludicrous.



B
T

 

["Doc" Devereux]

Haven't we seen several articles from the U.K. about getting rid of ties? Looks like Great Britain is no longer the last bastion of civilization on Earth.

I'm starting to think about moving to South America. Something appears to have gone horribly wrong with parts of the UK, and I'm pretty sure the warranty's expired.

 

[budward]

Here's a web link to a BBC story that's got to be the same one discussed in this thread:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/4788912.stm


Bud

 

["Doc" Devereux]

Impressive performance from the licensee there:

"We always approach people politely and most of the elderly take their hats off anyway when they sit down. Mrs Wilbraham does not understand that the world is changing."

What a delightfully patronising tone.

I shall not be offering the (aptly-named) Barracuda Group my custom.

 

[Aerol]

Dangerous Pub

Read the article....13 cameras...the real question is Do you want to be in a pub that's so dangerous that they need 13 security cameras?

 

[Alan Eardley]

Dangerous pub

You'd need to know Ely to appreciate the irony of the situation.

The UK is run by people who are trying to control us by trying to scare us. Well, it won't work. A pub in a place like Ely doesn't need 13 'security' cameras and they don't need to treat 84 year old ladies as if they are dangerous.

The 4 lane road into my town (population 80,000) has 14 'safety' cameras on a ten mile stretch and there are at least ten 'security' cameras in the town centre. I have no idea why - nothing ever happens there. How long will it be before 'they' ask us to remove our hats in the street because of the CCTV cameras?

Out with 'them' I say!:kick:

By the way the Hereward after whom the pub is named was an 11th century English freedom fighter who held out in the Ely fens against the Norman invaders. I wonder what he'd make of the situation?

 

["Doc" Devereux]

I couldn't agree more Alan!

As an aside, I'm told by friends in the licensed trade that more and more local authorities are making the installation of security cameras a condition of granting or renewing a liquor license. I personally find the idea offensive, as do many publicans of my acquaintance, but the way they are being forced upon us at every turn disturbs me greatly.

 

[Prairie Shade]

I "Think" I understand Part of the Problem

I am going out on a limb here, but I believe that a man may wear his hat anywhere he can spit. However, that doesnt apply to many establishments anymore. So, whether it is military training or what, I ALWAYS remove my hat when I enter a building, house, room or whatever. I'm not sure that applies to many younger people. A lady however, may wear her hat indoors or outdoors, as she pleases. I believe that wearing a greasy ballcap while you eat, or drink isnt very polite, but, I guess this pub may have used some of that rationale in their rules. But, not discriminating, I'm not sure there is much excuse for asking this lady to remove her hat just because some of the "younger" people were asked to remove theirs. Holy cow!!!

 

[shamus]

The big question is just how big was her hat?

Why was an 84 year old woman going into a pub?

Maybe she was an angry drunk?

Don't come to a conclusion until you know the facts.

 

[vespasian]

I will tell you how it is from the inside. I'm a cop, a rozzer, one of the filth. The whole point to this is having cameras does make the place safer and I can understand the rationale of treating everyone fairly but the problem isnt the CCTV its the people who enforce the rules. The whole point also of removing hats is to identify people when a problem does occur. The question has to be, likely to occur. Ok, perhaps this old lady isnt going to beat anyone up, but what if she turned out to be a credit card thief? There is sense in the argument. However the real problem lies not with how we catch villains but what we do when we catch them. If the courts werent so obsessed with being liberal and actually handed out sentences rather than perpetuated sociological experiments in keeping the bad guys and gals, no matter what their age, out and about in society, we would have to treat everyone like a criminal because we would pretty much know where they were. Banged up! Its like me turning up to a burglary and saying, "well, you know its not so easy to catch a burglar nowadays so what you need are steel plated doors, searchlights, guards, cameras etc. After all, its you fault, you had glass in the windows."

The problem we have here is the treason of the intellectuals, a vociferous liberal elite who did a bit of soft science, got into social work and then started hacking away at the foundations of what was turning into quite a nice society. Single parents applauded, families derided, heterosexuals seen as boring, gay and lesbian as cool, minorities pandered to, the majority told to shut up because whenever they speak they are uneducated and racist. Men made fun of in the media and women presented as unable to do wrong.I detest racism, I detest homophobia and I quite like the company of women but they are rational considerations. I just believe in fairness, but with criminals absolutely not. Sod the fairness, criminality is a choice, not something we are born into. What happened in that pub wasnt wrong in my opinion, just another example of how society cannot trust its members because the liberal elite have ruined the rule of law and fostered the prison society mentality. And if you dont believe it then ask a lawyer how their business would fare if persistent offenders were locked up. Then take a look at who makes up the majority of the government in the UK. Lawyers. Cameras are big bucks, courts are lucrative for the intellectual elite and prisons, well theyre too costly. Easier to tell old women to take their hats off. The point being, finally, if crime wasnt treated with such a cavalier attitude then we wouldnt need so much security and the majority would just get on with their lives without unneccesary rules.

 

[shamus]

vespasian

You are definitely among your peers at the Fedora Lounge.

 

[Art Fawcett]

agreed

and thanks for the insider look at it Vespasian

 

[John in Covina]

Unfair to all is fair.

The key was how the bar people said they could not be unfair to the young by not asking the elderly to remove their hats. What that means is that a one size fits all situation is enforce so it's taken to absurtity.

Now, you want to do something that will stop the kids or pretty much anyone from from getting out of hand: make it a rule that everyones ID is checked and photo-copied along with a picture of that person as a condition of entering the bar. You keep on file for a week or so and then turn it over to the authorities to become a digital record. It can be date and time stamped.

As to precidence: if you go to any check cashing agency in Southern California, they get a picture of you, your ID and the check info while you are standing there. The club then has a record of who was there and when plus a picture to match up with should any trouble takes place.

Short of wearing masks the ID should be no problem.

Of course the real question is how did we survive before these things were in place.

 

[budward]

I don't disagree with Vespasian's views on the liberal elite, but I can't imagine why a no hats policy is necessary or even particularly useful. I personally find the practice offensive (not that I'll ever experience it), and were I said 84 year old lady would have politely said no I won't take off my hat but I'll be happy to leave, instead, which I would have promptly done. Alas, I doubt there are enough hat wearers (who would meaningfully object to the policy or just hat wearers, period) to make a difference to this particular pub chain.

Bud