Vintage Stetson v. Modern Borsalino

[DougC]

Lately, I've been dreaming of a new hat. I have two modern ORs and a vintage (1950 or so) OR. The fur on the vintage is very nice, but, I keep thinking a Borsalino Alesandra (not sure I spelled that right) would be a great hat to own. So, can any one tell me how the vintage Stetson and the Borsalino compare?

 

[danofarlington]

Lately, I've been dreaming of a new hat. I have two modern ORs and a vintage (1950 or so) OR. The fur on the vintage is very nice, but, I keep thinking a Borsalino Alesandra (not sure I spelled that right) would be a great hat to own. So, can any one tell me how the vintage Stetson and the Borsalino compare?

I have a vintage Stetson Open Road, and a Borsalino Alessandria. I would have to say that the cut of the Alessandria is somewhat different. Dimension-wise they may be similar, but I would never mistake the latter for the former. Hard to articulate the difference, but the Alessandria in no way could be mistaken for a Western hat, as the OR is. I had to go look right now at the two to gather my thoughts, but the felt on the Alessandria is much softer, as characterizes many Borsalino hats, and the brim is floppier than the OR. Putting on the Alessandria, I would have to call it much more sporty than the OR, which is rather a serious hat in its own way.

 

[DougC]

Dano--the vintage OR I have has a tear drop crease. And, I think you answered my question--I need to look for a vintage Borsalino.

 

[danofarlington]

Dano--the vintage OR I have has a tear drop crease. And, I think you answered my question--I need to look for a vintage Borsalino.

revised below

 

[danofarlington]

Dano--the vintage OR I have has a tear drop crease. And, I think you answered my question--I need to look for a vintage Borsalino.

I would add one thing. Whereas the comparison you originally asked for, OR versus modern Alessandria, was feasible to answer, when you get into the territory of vintage Borsalinos, you are in a new universe. Vintage OR and modern Alsessandrias are one single model each, basically. Although OR changed its dimensions a little bit over time, it's still the same style hat, as is modern Alessandria. But vintage Borsalinos are all over the place style-wise. I'll bet it would be difficult to get any two alike on E Bay, let alone identify what was their model name when they came out, or the date of when they came out. That's part of the fun, is seeing the different styles in photos, then seeing what they actually turn out to be when they arrive. I like buying vintage Borsalinos a lot, but it is like dipping randomly into the Goodwill stores of yore, with little information available, sometimes not even size. This is by way of saying that it's hard to plan for a certain kind of thing when hunting vintage Borsalinos, other than what you see on the website is what you get.

 

[DougC]

Fair enough--and I'll enoy the hunt. I should have been more clear; I'll look for a vintage Alessandria. I can say this--a lawyer in town wears a Borsalino (no idea what model or age) and I picked it up one day. That is one great hat!! The felt had a great feel that was both soft and rigid at the same time. So, now the question becomes which thread should I look at to find out more about the Alessandria? My local hatter has one or two hats that are too small for me and doesnot seem too interested in ordering.

EDIT: Search finally worked for me. I found a few different threads and think I need to make a trip to Fort Worth and the Pete's shop. Short of that, I'll check the classifieds here and the Bay.

 

[danofarlington]

Fair enough--and I'll enoy the hunt. I should have been more clear; I'll look for a vintage Alessandria. I can say this--a lawyer in town wears a Borsalino (no idea what model or age) and I picked it up one day. That is one great hat!! The felt had a great feel that was both soft and rigid at the same time. So, now the question becomes which thread should I look at to find out more about the Alessandria? My local hatter has one or two hats that are too small for me and doesnot seem too interested in ordering.

EDIT: Search finally worked for me. I found a few different threads and think I need to make a trip to Fort Worth and the Pete's shop. Short of that, I'll check the classifieds here and the Bay.

Good luck with the search. One point I would add--vintage Alessandrias are probably not just earlier versions of the modern Alessandria, at least it appears not to me. Not parallel to the way that an Open Road is an Open Road is an Open Road. EBay hats I have seen marked as Alessandrias, often look very different from the modern Alessandria. I bought my modern version at Peters Brothers, by the way.

Maybe someone else on this forum has more information about vintage Alessandrias than I do. If you really need to know, by the way, you could phone up one of the Italian hat shops, which know Borsalino, and ask them about what they know. One such location is Capelleria Melegari, info@capelleriamelegari.com. Sergio there is a very helpful person. tel. +39 02 312094

 

[zetwal]

Lately, I've been dreaming of a new hat. I have two modern ORs and a vintage (1950 or so) OR. The fur on the vintage is very nice, but, I keep thinking a Borsalino Alesandra (not sure I spelled that right) would be a great hat to own. So, can any one tell me how the vintage Stetson and the Borsalino compare?

Vintage is a rather vague term. But having owned ten or twelve Stetson ORs from the 40s and 50s, and at least as many thin ribbon Borsalinos from the same period, I can offer a few generalizations about the particular hats that I have owned.

ORs tend to have a fuller bodied crown and thicker felt. The brims are generally wider and the hat has a heavier and more robust handle. Sometimes they can be rather stiff (especially when clear beaver). In my experience, they have reeded sweatbands. There could be (and no doubt are) exceptions.

The Borsalino thin ribbon style hats tend to have a less voluminous crown and are made of thinner felt. In my experience, they are never as stiff as the stiffer Stetsons. The brim sizes seem to have greater range. My impression is that as often as not the Borsalino thin ribbon brims are not as wide as the OR. In other words, brims in the 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 range are not uncommon. The Stetson OR brims tend to be wider. I would go so far as to say most are in the 2 5/8 to 2 7/8 range. Again, there can be (and no doubt are) exceptions, but I'm talking about what seems to be typical. The Borsalino thin ribbon style is also lighter weight than the Stetson OR and often unreeded. I have yet to see a vintage Borsalino with plastic over the liner (as is not uncommon with ORs).

The overall impression is that the OR is a bigger and more rugged hat. You could say that it's more severe (but I don't mean that in a bad way). The Borsalino thin ribbon tends to be less voluminous, and the vibe a little less western. It's softer around the edges and lighter weight. Many are unreeded. Upon close examination, there are other differences as well, but those mentioned here are the most obvious.

By the way, since I don't own any later model examples of either hat (and have handled only a few) I can't speak to them. I also exclude the wide brim Borsalinos worn by many traditional Jewish men. If some are thin ribboned, that too is entirely outside my experience.

 

[zetwal]

By the way, sometimes hats of different models (or even brands) can be very hard to tell apart at a glance. Look at this picture, for example. One is an OR and the other is a Stratoliner dating to the same general period.

If I were to put a thin ribbon Borsalino of similar age (and with the same color and brim) next it all three would all look very similar. Maybe someone else can go ahead and post a picture like that. But if you were to handle these hats (even with eyes closed) you would find that each is very different from the other.

 

[hatophile]

I echo what Zetwal and Dano have said. I own several OR's, a few Allessandrias, and a couple of Stetson Stratoliners. Oddly, one of my Strats has the look and feel of a narrower-brim OR, while I have a 15 OR I just bought with the look and feel of a Stratoliner. 3 of the Allesandrias are thin ribboned, one is wide ribboned, however, they all have that very thin feel to the felt, very pliable, but not necessarily mushy. If you're looking for a thin-ribboned hat and want something a little less rugged than the OR, you'll probably be fine with a thin-ribbon Borso, no matter what model they call it. Just be aware, brim widths may vary. Another dressier looking hat would be the vintage Stetson Stratoliner. Because of the name, those tend to go for a lot of money, especially if you have a larger head. For us smaller to medium head guys, prices are more reasonable, just because of availability.

 

[hatophile]

By the way, Zetwal,
Nice couple of hats there in the picture.

 

[DougC]

Zetwal--Stratoliner on the right side of the picture?

Man--I missed it; I just looked at the classfieds and Garrett unloaded several very nice hats in the right size. One really beaten up Allessandria on ebay...right color and size, and it should come back with a blocking, right?