waistcoat questions

[Not-Bogart13]

I was thinking of the left pocket for the exact same reason. I always feel better when somebody else confirms my logic.

I have a double chain, but I don't think I could bring myself to wear it short of a black-tie event. If I tried a double chain with a conventional waistcoat, I am afraid I would feel like the chain was wearing me. So it will be a single chain with the waistcoats I am currently acquiring.

Probably a good call. At least until you get used to wearing the watch and waistcoat combo. That's what I'm doing. I'll decide later if I want to try a double.

Now, we might be of like minds, but that may just mean we are of like psychosis. lol

 

[dnjan]

Now, we might be of like minds, but that may just mean we are of like psychosis. lol

The optimist in me says that it is just superior logic ...

 

[3PieceSuitGuy]

In Australia

The bottom button is generally left undone. I always leave it undone! It's generally younger guys who may not know the sartorial rules or traditions thatbutton the bottom button. Also with cheaper manufacturing costs etc things like an offset bottom button that is not meant to be buttoned have fallen by the wayside. I have some US waistcoat patterns from the 50's and these do have the offset bottom button, as do my vintage 3 piece suits, so I'd say there definately was a time when you didn't do p the bottom button in the US.

In regards to the bottom button of a jacket my thoughts are that this is a bit of a sartorial rule, but that it also differentiates civilian attire from military. The only jackets I know of where all buttons should be buttoned are military jackets and one button tuxes.

Cheers

Peter

That's interesting.. I'd say that almost all British men do not button their waistcoat's bottom button whatever the cut. It's a really strong tradition here I think but do Americans and other non Brits not have this tradition to such a strong degree? I mean what percentage of Americans do you reckon carry on this tradition? I'm seeing the tradition die out a little in the UK I think but has it always been less in the U.S? Really interested in this so if you get time...

 

[Matt Deckard]

I'd leave it buttoned on my vests that allow it to be buttoned, yet when my belly is bulging... exceptions will be made!

 

[Drew B]

I 've never personally seen a practical point in the last button thing, especially on suits.

Most of the time i wear a jacket fully buttoned, someone i know will undoubtedly say. "You know, your not supposed to bottom the bottom button up."

To this i usually reply. " Madam (or sir), if the lowermost button on my garment was to remain unbottoned i would see no practical purpose in its existance. Being an advocate of practical application i would therefore find no use for this lowermost button and simply remove it. In this case the button above would immediately obtain the title of 'lowermost button' and much like the aformentioned fastening device, it would soon be removed. After little time i can imagine I would find myself with a lovely jacket and without any buttons, which as I'm sure you can comprehend, my friend, is sad state indeed."

these people usually look at me dumbfounded for a bit and probably think i'm a bit of a tool, but i rarely get a response and the point is immediately dropped.

 

[donCarlos]

Drew B
The last button on the jackets is usually left unbuttoned, because if you button it, you´ll ruin the shape of the jacket.
However, I´ve already noticed that it doesn´t affect the shape of an average modern jacket, so I guess it´s up to you.
(I leave mine unbuttoned, even though I often have to face the common problem "too much tie and shirt visible")

And about vests - Since I have only modern, very short vests, I have to button them all the way down to cover at least part of my waist. And it looks OK )

 

[Max Flash]

Wow, Drew B. You must be a blast to have around.

 

[Drew B]

The last button on the jackets is usually left unbuttoned, because if you button it, you´ll ruin the shape of the jacket.
However, I´ve already noticed that it doesn´t affect the shape of an average modern jacket, so I guess it´s up to you.
(I leave mine unbuttoned, even though I often have to face the common problem "too much tie and shirt visible")

ahhh, well i don't have much at all in the way of original threads, so i have never had a real reason to leave it undone. I do however have an over-coat that I only button the top two buttons due to the bottom two distorting the shape but i think that is a simple case of poor design.... it was after all very cheap.

the reason i tend to defend my buttoning habbit to others is, just as someone earlier said, no-one can give me a practical reason to leave it unbuttoned. To me that means they are applying a rule simply because 'fashion' has demanded it and that bothers me.

but this info does provide me with an origin of the suit rule. thanks.

a bit fftopic: but does it bother anyone else that people tell you that you aren't suposed to button the bottom one without having a real reason. I mean we gents tend to put in a bit of effort to look nice rather than be snobs and then your average guys trys to tell you your doing it all wrong just because they saw some 'fashion guru' talk about bottom buttons. that kinda thing really bothers me. It would be like me going up to a professional something or other and saying they're doing their job wrong.

wow. rant much

 

[Rhabryn]

This will probably sound like anathema, but...

With regard to the "waistcoat too short" problem that is so rife these days. (and trust me, I believe it IS a problem... as I am long-waisted for my height).

If you have significant fabric left over in the leg of your pant after having it hemmed or cuffed - have your alterations shop/tailor take the extra fabric (to the extent that they can) and fashion a couple extra inches of material at the top of your shoulders where the linining material meets the suiting material of the vest.

The problems with this modification are:
1) a largely unnoticable seam (depending on how well your shop can match-up pinstripes and plaids... if they cant get material to match it up well, then make sure they do it in a way that looks intentionally not-matched)
2) the gorge of the vest will drop, killing some of that "high-gorge" feel... (but I believe it to be a good trade for having my vest long enough).
(Yes, yes, I know... "this post is meaningless without pictures" - I just don't have a camera at present)

Alternatively, I've considered the following attempt at a suit:
- Get a "long" suit (or, if you wear long, an extra long <Note: hard to find>)
You'll end up with a long waistcoat
- Hem the jacket
You'll end up with a "low gorge" jacket (a proportion which I, personally, like)
(But I don't know how it will work out really - and I dont think its cheap)
- Alter the waistcoat to fit to your sides
- The pants might have some extra room in the rise as well


Alternatively, you could be a real meanie to every other guy who looks at suits similar to the one you're interested in - and play mix-and-match with different suit pieces while the clerk is busy. (I don't recommend this one)

OR - buy separated (I never like the styles/patterns of suits that come in separates... hopefully it becomes more prevalent and they start offering most, if not all, suits in that form).


Cheers all,
Rhabryn

 

[donCarlos]

Drew B You can be happy that people tell you to leave it unbuttoned. (even if it bothers you) Yesterday I was asked by some ladies why I always wear the last button undone. I explained it the same way I explained it to you and it was very new to them. They said that they always tell their men to button the jacket all the way. You get at least a correct advice

 

[3PieceSuitGuy]

Hello Drew,

There are some things that are fads in fashion and some things, especially in men's fashion, that are traditions that have been going on for a long time. As long as I have been wearing suits, and we are talking 25 years, you always leave the bottom button undone on a jacket or waistcoat. It may not be so pertinant now because tailoring standards have changed, but if you are lucky enough to own a vintage suit you will find that buttoning the last button will pull the jacket out of shape. The reason this unbuttoned button is there is for aesthetics & balance. I have a 40's 3 piece suit and the jacket is a 2 button jacket, and the bottom button is designed not to be buttoned. It is there just for aesthetics. It is just a tradition. Some things are just part of the overall look. I respect your preference to wear your jacket the way you want but to a traditionalist like me and many others here at the lounge it just isn't right - to us. It's just like many other rules - it can be broken but does it need to be?

There are some things in life that just are the way they are. They don't have rhyme nor reason and they don't have to. To me someone made this fashion rule up and it caught on and became a tradition, so much so that it was tailored into a garment. These days in some modern suits due to cost cutting etc it has been tailored out, however it is still there in other modern suits. I don't have a set in stone reason for you to me it just is. I guess I have to accept that your preference is to button, and you'll have to accept that when someone like me sees that you button it I just think "not quite right"

Cheers

Peter

ahhh, well i don't have much at all in the way of original threads, so i have never had a real reason to leave it undone. I do however have an over-coat that I only button the top two buttons due to the bottom two distorting the shape but i think that is a simple case of poor design.... it was after all very cheap.

the reason i tend to defend my buttoning habbit to others is, just as someone earlier said, no-one can give me a practical reason to leave it unbuttoned. To me that means they are applying a rule simply because 'fashion' has demanded it and that bothers me.

but this info does provide me with an origin of the suit rule. thanks.

a bit fftopic: but does it bother anyone else that people tell you that you aren't suposed to button the bottom one without having a real reason. I mean we gents tend to put in a bit of effort to look nice rather than be snobs and then your average guys trys to tell you your doing it all wrong just because they saw some 'fashion guru' talk about bottom buttons. that kinda thing really bothers me. It would be like me going up to a professional something or other and saying they're doing their job wrong.

wow. rant much

 

[Dinerman]

I have an early '30s American single breasted three piece. It just doesn't look right without the bottom vest button buttoned.

 

[Ethan Bentley]

Charming

Ah the double chain is a nice touch, particularly if you've got another useful charm to go on the other end. I recently got a small compass and magnifier for mine.
I am right-handed and I'm currently wearing my watch, with a single chain, in the left pocket.

Does anyone have any charms for their pocket watch chains?

 

[dnjan]

I have a silver dollar from the year my mother was born for the other end of my double chain.

 

[Ethan Bentley]

Sounds like an excellent charm. On my single chain I've got a silver shield as a charm by the T-bar, it belonged to my wife's late Grandfather who was a great chap and used to be a watchmaker. It reminds me of him and she likes me to wear it because it's a reminder to her also.

 

[dnjan]

I can't bring myself to use an exposed charm. The silver dollar goes in the other pocket, and I took off the short hanger right below the T-bar.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Ah the double chain is a nice touch, particularly if you've got another useful charm to go on the other end. I recently got a small compass and magnifier for mine.
I am right-handed and I'm currently wearing my watch, with a single chain, in the left pocket.

I like the idea of a magnifier on the double chain! No that I'm wearing glasses to read, it would be quite handy in a pinch.

 

[Pip]

I have an early '30s American single breasted three piece. It just doesn't look right without the bottom vest button buttoned.

Ditto on one of my 1930's British 3 piece suits. The cut is simply wrong to leave the bottom waistcoat button unbuttoned.

 

[Ethan Bentley]

I like the idea of a magnifier on the double chain! No that I'm wearing glasses to read, it would be quite handy in a pinch.

I'll see if I can find a picture to upload. It was an eBay job but, once polished came up a treat.
I'm quite interested in practical charms as well as the personal ones, as mentioned above.

I've seen ones that hold sovereigns and a few that hold a retractable pencil. Pocket knifes are quite common too.

 

[Ethan Bentley]

As promised...

£1 and a quarter coins to give some scale.