Whippet "factory" standard crown and brim shapes?

[Davidson]

I've dug out several nice Whippet pics from FL. But I'm trying to determine what the "factory" crown was - center dent, dent with front pinch, teardrop? I've seen all these on FL...

Also, I see in a lot of pics that the rear bound edge is turned up. Not a pencil roll exactly, just 45-90 degree right at the bound edge. Did they come that way originally?

Finally, some brims seem to have a lot of "snap" (curl) and some are pretty flat. What's more "historically accurate" (if anything is)?

As always, thanks!

 

[Pilgrim]

I've dug out several nice Whippet pics from FL. But I'm trying to determine what the "factory" crown was - center dent, dent with front pinch, teardrop? I've seen all these on FL...

Also, I see in a lot of pics that the rear bound edge is turned up. Not a pencil roll exactly, just 45-90 degree right at the bound edge. Did they come that way originally?

Finally, some brims seem to have a lot of "snap" (curl) and some are pretty flat. What's more "historically accurate" (if anything is)?

As always, thanks!

Dang, I wrote all that stuff (below) and I got it wrong - Whippet, not OR.

Most of what I said about the OR would also apply to the Whippet. The brim widths are about the same, they both have bound edges, and when they were selling a lot of them, I'd bet they were shipped with the hat as a blank - then shaped to the buyer's preference, it only takes 5-10 minutes to do so with the right equipment.

My earlier (mistaken) response:

- As far as I can tell, the cattleman's bash was the "default" style for most users. However, I suspect that most Stetsons were shipped with blank (open, rounded, whatever term you like) crowns and shaped either when put on display or when purchased. It may be that in later years (70's or so) they were shipped with a given bash - I don't know. Maybe Besdor or another vendor can tell us.
- The brim width on ORs varied slightly over time. I don't know how intentional this was, but it probably affected the brim "curl". In every OR I have seen, the edges of the brim turn up - probably as a result of flanging (I think that's the right term for brim shaping on the mold).
- Don't forget that ORs have bound edges - I suspect this tends to give a bit more snap to the brim. But in many cases, it probably depends more on the handling and storage of the individual hat, as most of them are 30 to 70 years old.

Those are my thoughts - don't take 'em for gospel.

 

[jimmy the lid]

I think there may be a disconnect here. Davidson is asking about Whippets, and Pilgrim, I think, is talking about Open Roads...

As far as historical accuracy goes, it is very instructive to look at the old Stetson ads. If you do a search for "Stetson Whippet" on eBay, you will turn up a bunch of these old ads. This can give you a general sense of the look of the Whippet over time from back in the day.

As a general matter, I think it is fair to say that the Whippet featured a fairly pronounced back curl. As far as crown treatments go, I'm not sure there was anything like a "factory standard" treatment. One ad from 1945 shows what is clearly a kind of diamond hand bash. I would think that center dents were pretty popular bashes for the Whippet, as would be teardrop-related bashes.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Chaperon]

Virgin Whippet found

Brousing with my wife today I found a seemingly new-in-the-box dark grey (almost black) Stetson Whippet in an antique shop in Chamblee (Atlanta GA area). The crown was open, so I would assume each buyer formed, or had formed for him, the shape he wished. Perhaps this helps with your question - I'd have to assume this one was characteristic of the product.

The price tag was still in it ($10) and it appeared to have never been shaped or worn. It is a 7 1/4 and I'm a 7 3/8 to 7 1/2 LO, so I left it where I found it.
The shop wanted $50 for it (with the right box). The only iffiness I found was a very small bit of mildew starting as the shop was keeping it in a palstic bag in the box. It looked like it could be removed easily however.

 

[tonyb]

Well, Chaperon, I just sent you a PM. Mention an apparently deadstock Whippet around this place and see what happens ...

 

[Davidson]

Brousing with my wife today I found a seemingly new-in-the-box dark grey (almost black) Stetson Whippet in an antique shop in Chamblee (Atlanta GA area). The crown was open, so I would assume each buyer formed, or had formed for him, the shape he wished. Perhaps this helps with your question - I'd have to assume this one was characteristic of the product.

The ebay Whippet ads I found were from 1940-1948 (Thanks for the tip, JtL!). Was it still common then to ship open crown hats to retailers for shaping?

 

[tonyb]

Yes, it was, Davidson. It you get around to it, check out period photos. (Wanna see a real sloopy -- or "asymmetrical," to be more polite about it -- crown shape? Check out FDR's fedora.)

 

[tonyb]

For whatever it's worth

Watched last night's installment of the PBS documentary series "American Experience," which featured Amelia Earhart. (Man oh man, what a beauty! But that's a topic for another day.)
Lotsa footage dating from the 1920s and '30s, showing many, many hat-wearing men. It appeared that in the earlier footage the center dent predominated, some with a front pinch and some without. The later footage seemed to show more of the other crown shapes, although the center dent was still apparently the most common crown treatment.
Yeah, yeah, I know ... it's hard to infer anything solid from a few minutes of old film footage, but still.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Yeah, yeah, I know ... it's hard to infer anything solid from a few minutes of old film footage, but still.

You know, it's funny -- it's hard for me to watch documentaries, or even Hollywood films, set in the Golden Era without being completely distracted by looking at hats and hat styles. My wife just loves it (...NOT!) when I suddenly and inexplicably freeze frame what we're watching so that I can study a particular hat...:eusa_doh: Thankfully, however, she does understand my affliction...

Cheers,
JtL

 

[jeboat]

Whippet bashing

"Back in the day" there were hat shops in every town of any size and multiple stores where the clientele warranted it.

I was not around then but I would hazard a guess that since almost all men wore hats and there were lots of hat sources, it was customary for the shop or department store to bash an open crown hat to whatever shape you wanted. Semi-custom products in clothing then was the norm, not the exception.

In today's world everything is done for you, prepackaged, etc. As a kid I used to watch the candy and nuts my dad bought being weighed out. Screws and nails were in open bins not in little boxes...

jeboat

 

[Lawman]

I was recently fortunate enough to pick up what appeared to be a dead stock Whippett (with a $10 price tag), and it was unbashed. Upside down in the original box, with a domed top, like a bowler. Pardon the artless description, but I hope you guys get what I am saying.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Yup. I got a Whippet that came the same way.

Cheers,
JtL