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Bill Kelso's New Californian half belt, a new release I think.
- Thread starter zhz
- Start date
Well I just got a mail from Andy, they started on my jacket and wanted to confirm one last time some measurements with me.
When I ordered the jacket Andy told me the waiting time was 4 months, so they are in the announced timing.
When I get the jacket I'll post a quick review.
When I ordered the jacket Andy told me the waiting time was 4 months, so they are in the announced timing.
When I get the jacket I'll post a quick review.
nick123
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,369
- Location
- California
Platon is the designer (he picks the patterns/models) Andy is the sales/communications guy, and they have a jacket maker. I think Platon is the main person. I could be wrong.
I believe its 3.5 staff; Platon, Andy , part time cutter and some one to sew them up.
My experience with BK has so far been a positive one.
- Messages
- 15,448
- Location
- East Central Indiana
Platon claims to reside in Chicago and on a VLJ post states this: "Andy works for BK and I work for another company in a business not at all related to jackets. I do what I do for BK in my free time as a hobby because I love the jackets just like you do".
HD
HD
zhz
Practically Family
- Messages
- 890
- Location
- China, London and Coventry UK
My experience with BK is positive as well, Andy is helpful in the email and he agreed to send me an original Aero A2 so I can try on and decide the size and measurements, but I didn't take this option in the end.
They told me today that my Werber is done, I will post the reply when I receive it.
They told me today that my Werber is done, I will post the reply when I receive it.
zhz
Practically Family
- Messages
- 890
- Location
- China, London and Coventry UK
I still think the role of Platon is a mystery, he said he is the designer of BK, and he started the company, but then he claimed the above quote...
zhz
Practically Family
- Messages
- 890
- Location
- China, London and Coventry UK
Thanks mate, you are right it is hard to get this done through internet, and I hope my Werber fits well.
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pawineguy
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,968
- Location
- Bucks County, PA
I hope your jacket is perfect - I love the look of everything that they produce, I just have a very strong bias against the personalities, but the work seems to speak for itself otherwise.
Well we certainly knew Platon when he was part of Club Obi Wan (Indiana Jones jacket fans). He was a very prominent member there for a while with over-sized and dogmatic opinions and I'm fairly certain he left on complex, if not censorious terms. Platon I recall was obsessed with screen accurate jackets and made it clear A2's were even more to his taste. Hence BK still sell an Indiana Jones jacket. The tone and expression used in Andy's emails were so similar I was always certain they were the same guy - Platon. Platon used to be based in Greece.
I have a Bill Kelso jacket from a couple of years ago and have also been following their business development.
Regarding the jacket, there is room for improvement but I am mostly very happy with it (they have changed their leather since then). I have found Andy very good to communicate with when making an order although there were a few disappointing delays and missed promised completion dates due to Bill Kelso not being able to secure a steady source of materials with which they are happy to use.
I've dug up a couple of posts by Platon on VLJ where he describes the Bill Kelso company profile and their evolution.
"""
First of all, BK is my creation. Andy and his team were running a shop making fashion leathers and the only idea they had about flying jackets were the mall type jackets they were making and selling in the 80s. Business was bad and the shop was about to close due to three factors a) the crisis b) the ever growing summer in Greece (no one wears leather) c) the fact that these days you can buy leather at shops like Zara for eur 50.
As you may know the original plan was to sell a hybrid A-2 with wwii fit as cheap as possible for the people who couldn't afford to buy the high end repros. Money and time was spent but demand was near to zero so something had to be done. So more money was spent and switched to a cheap version of the Rough Wear without the correct hardware. Demand increased but was still not enough to cover the expense time and effort invested. I came to the conclusion that people didn't care much for 'cheapo' jackets. All jacket makers had waiting lists of 6 months or more and BK was struggling to sell 2-3 jackets per month. It was time time to either improve the product or die. I chose to improve. Improve the quality, details, everything. That meant also introduce more styles, buy more originals to copy etc which translated into more expenses. I will give you only one example, from one color knits, we are now at 4 different colors for the A-2 and 3 colors for the M-422, i.e. total 7. Cost inevitably increased. I don't need to mention that last time we bought lining from USA cost was $100 and paid $230 in customs!!! Same goes for the thread we buy from USA and the knits, e.g. thread costs us $12 per tube while in USA they buy it at $5.95
We bear these costs ourselves and the price remains cheapest. Others who don't have these costs charge twice what we charge (I don't blame them). We make heroic efforts to keep the price down, we pay double for everything and our price is still half than others.
I shouldn't be arguing about this. It is a fact BK is still the cheapest in the market. BK prices are below Aero, while quality is same and accuracy is better. I recently bought a Buzz Rickson RW to compare with the new BK RW. Guess what, the BK was far better and I have photos to prove it.
"""
And in a later post.
"""
As briefly as possible, BK is my own concept. It would not have been possible without the assistance of a local (based in Athens) leather jacket maker/shop. I provide the know-how and they make the jackets. I am the 'art director' and consultant so to speak.
I am also the 'designer' in the sense that I am the one who chooses what jackets are going to be released. I am also responsible for the designing (but not making) of the website and for online marketing and promotion. (BK has presence in 4 online forums, I write in 2 and Andy in the other 2). I am responsible for sourcing the original jackets to be copied, as well as all the materials used, leathers, linings, threads, zippers etc (everything except the venthole eyelets). In case BK source some item/material, it has to get my approval before it can be used. I design the woven labels and everything else you see (e.g. the Arthur Rogers jacket, or Claire Chennault's jacket). People from this forum who worked with me know the effort I put and attention in detail. I am responsible for quality assurance and am there to safeguard your interests, in every respect, because by doing so, ensure BK's prosperity, in which I have an interest. I am your man inside BK and my aim is your satisfaction. Anything you want from BK you can talk to me. I will hear all kinds of requests (well only the moral ones). I am there to ensure high standards are kept always. I am responsible for developing wholesales (nothing done yet) and business development. Finally I am the guy who installs the collar hooks on the A-2 jackets. I get a percentage of sales for my contribution.
BK's investment in the Victory horsehides will eventually pay but we're trying to expedite the good results as time is of the essence. We live in difficult times and going through an unprecedented crisis, so extraordinary circumstances demand extraordinary measures. Hence the aggressive marketing (sorry).
"""
Regarding the jacket, there is room for improvement but I am mostly very happy with it (they have changed their leather since then). I have found Andy very good to communicate with when making an order although there were a few disappointing delays and missed promised completion dates due to Bill Kelso not being able to secure a steady source of materials with which they are happy to use.
I've dug up a couple of posts by Platon on VLJ where he describes the Bill Kelso company profile and their evolution.
"""
First of all, BK is my creation. Andy and his team were running a shop making fashion leathers and the only idea they had about flying jackets were the mall type jackets they were making and selling in the 80s. Business was bad and the shop was about to close due to three factors a) the crisis b) the ever growing summer in Greece (no one wears leather) c) the fact that these days you can buy leather at shops like Zara for eur 50.
As you may know the original plan was to sell a hybrid A-2 with wwii fit as cheap as possible for the people who couldn't afford to buy the high end repros. Money and time was spent but demand was near to zero so something had to be done. So more money was spent and switched to a cheap version of the Rough Wear without the correct hardware. Demand increased but was still not enough to cover the expense time and effort invested. I came to the conclusion that people didn't care much for 'cheapo' jackets. All jacket makers had waiting lists of 6 months or more and BK was struggling to sell 2-3 jackets per month. It was time time to either improve the product or die. I chose to improve. Improve the quality, details, everything. That meant also introduce more styles, buy more originals to copy etc which translated into more expenses. I will give you only one example, from one color knits, we are now at 4 different colors for the A-2 and 3 colors for the M-422, i.e. total 7. Cost inevitably increased. I don't need to mention that last time we bought lining from USA cost was $100 and paid $230 in customs!!! Same goes for the thread we buy from USA and the knits, e.g. thread costs us $12 per tube while in USA they buy it at $5.95
We bear these costs ourselves and the price remains cheapest. Others who don't have these costs charge twice what we charge (I don't blame them). We make heroic efforts to keep the price down, we pay double for everything and our price is still half than others.
I shouldn't be arguing about this. It is a fact BK is still the cheapest in the market. BK prices are below Aero, while quality is same and accuracy is better. I recently bought a Buzz Rickson RW to compare with the new BK RW. Guess what, the BK was far better and I have photos to prove it.
"""
And in a later post.
"""
As briefly as possible, BK is my own concept. It would not have been possible without the assistance of a local (based in Athens) leather jacket maker/shop. I provide the know-how and they make the jackets. I am the 'art director' and consultant so to speak.
I am also the 'designer' in the sense that I am the one who chooses what jackets are going to be released. I am also responsible for the designing (but not making) of the website and for online marketing and promotion. (BK has presence in 4 online forums, I write in 2 and Andy in the other 2). I am responsible for sourcing the original jackets to be copied, as well as all the materials used, leathers, linings, threads, zippers etc (everything except the venthole eyelets). In case BK source some item/material, it has to get my approval before it can be used. I design the woven labels and everything else you see (e.g. the Arthur Rogers jacket, or Claire Chennault's jacket). People from this forum who worked with me know the effort I put and attention in detail. I am responsible for quality assurance and am there to safeguard your interests, in every respect, because by doing so, ensure BK's prosperity, in which I have an interest. I am your man inside BK and my aim is your satisfaction. Anything you want from BK you can talk to me. I will hear all kinds of requests (well only the moral ones). I am there to ensure high standards are kept always. I am responsible for developing wholesales (nothing done yet) and business development. Finally I am the guy who installs the collar hooks on the A-2 jackets. I get a percentage of sales for my contribution.
BK's investment in the Victory horsehides will eventually pay but we're trying to expedite the good results as time is of the essence. We live in difficult times and going through an unprecedented crisis, so extraordinary circumstances demand extraordinary measures. Hence the aggressive marketing (sorry).
"""
- Messages
- 15,448
- Location
- East Central Indiana
AZog
I read that post by Platon when it was posted on the VLJ...but then there is the later contradictory post that I posted here(among others by Platon on VLJ). I think that is part of BKs problem with some...and makes for wondering why the discrepancies (?).
HD
I read that post by Platon when it was posted on the VLJ...but then there is the later contradictory post that I posted here(among others by Platon on VLJ). I think that is part of BKs problem with some...and makes for wondering why the discrepancies (?).
HD
pawineguy
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,968
- Location
- Bucks County, PA
From Andy in 2012:
"Thanks for this.
Of course, there are several persons working for BK. I am just the spokesman and the one responsible for the correspondence and customer service. I am not the owner. The onwers are US Expats who live in Greece. The staff of the company includes Greek, Half Italian and Maltese (myself) persons. One of the Greek persons involved (the designer) is family related with one of the owners and is mainly responsible for the development of the Indy jacket. He is also acquainted with you Rick (you have bought one jacket from him)."
And my personal favorite quote:
"The leathers come from Italy and the sewing is done by our half Italian guy."
"Thanks for this.
Of course, there are several persons working for BK. I am just the spokesman and the one responsible for the correspondence and customer service. I am not the owner. The onwers are US Expats who live in Greece. The staff of the company includes Greek, Half Italian and Maltese (myself) persons. One of the Greek persons involved (the designer) is family related with one of the owners and is mainly responsible for the development of the Indy jacket. He is also acquainted with you Rick (you have bought one jacket from him)."
And my personal favorite quote:
"The leathers come from Italy and the sewing is done by our half Italian guy."
pawineguy
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,968
- Location
- Bucks County, PA
Platon now banned on VLJ as of today... but on Facebook he's promised to post pics of all staff and an explanation of their roles / company history.
