Wearing double detachable collars with ties

[JAH]

Hi all,

This topic has come up a couple of times, mainly in the context of other discussions, but it would be really helpful to know if anyone had any solid advice on how to wear a tie with a double collar. The collar I'm talking about is the Darcy Clothing Double Round Stiff Collar http://www.darcyclothing.com/shop/collars/double-round-stiff-collar-co120.html and once the tie is knotted, I can't adjust it - it simply won't move at all. The one bit of advice I've seen is to add a bit of talcum powder, which I'm hoping to try as soon as possible. Any other solid tips very welcome!

Thanks,

JH

 

[Hap Hapablap]

I wear this collar, too, and find it equally difficult to adjust the tie. Basically, I try to just create the knot as high and "finished" as possible so little adjusting is needed. I am able to get a little pull and leeway, but I know what you mean. Are you wearing minimally-lined/interfaced 20s-40s ties? I always assumed they were made this way to accommodate the tightness of stiff collars. Of course manhandling and pulling on a beautiful, vintage tie makes me squeamish.

 

[JAH]

I wear this collar, too, and find it equally difficult to adjust the tie. Basically, I try to just create the knot as high and "finished" as possible so little adjusting is needed. I am able to get a little pull and leeway, but I know what you mean. Are you wearing minimally-lined/interfaced 20s-40s ties? I always assumed they were made this way to accommodate the tightness of stiff collars. Of course manhandling and pulling on a beautiful, vintage tie makes me squeamish.

Thanks. Glad it's not just me! I don't have any vintage ties, partly because I have never found what I'm looking for (I'm really after a more Edwardian look). So do you actually knot the tie before fully attaching the collar? Or just try to work out where the knot will finish? Finally, have you every tried the washable version of this collar? I'm wondering whether that might be a better option for this one...

 

[Hap Hapablap]

I don't knot it before attaching the collar, but try to make sure the tie length is just about exactly where it needs to be before attaching it. It's a challenge! One of the many reasons – I am sure – that stiff collars went out of style. I have NOT tried any of the washable collars (I wear 4 or 5 different Darcy collars) but am considering it since, living in the States, it is more cost-effective to buy new replacements than have the old ones laundered in the UK. As far as I know, there is nowhere in the States that can properly launder collars.

 

[F. J.]

I have several of Darcy’s washable collars and I find that the taller ones are actually easier on the ties than the shorter ones. Funny, that the more casual ones are more of a pain.

They are convincingly stiff without being too difficult to put on. I attach them at the rear stud, flip them open, put the tie underneath, and flip it back down before fastening to the front stud. I then tie the knot as normal. I then push the tie’s band farther up in to the collar so it doesn’t show.

As for maintenance, they couldn’t be easier. After I’ve worn a particular collar two or three times (it depends on how long I was wearing it and what I was doing), I wash it with other whites then hang it on a hanger until dry. I iron both sides flat, then add a little spray starch to the outside and iron again. I then fold them and put them in a round plastic box with a lid to store them. I wish I had a nice leather collar box, but the “Tupperware” seems to work fine.

Here’s a thread comparing the two varieties: Darcy detachable collars - Washable Vs. Starched?

 

[GHT]

I have several of Darcy’s washable collars and I find that the taller ones are actually easier on the ties than the shorter ones. Funny, that the more casual ones are more of a pain.

You are right, the casual ones are that much more difficult. Compared to the round collar, the spearpoint is frustratingly impossible, almost. So congratulations to all of you who persevere, and look the part, it's worth the frustration.

Here's a couple of tips that I learned in the 50's, when such collars were a part of our school uniform. Not only does the tie not slide easily once the collar is folded over, it's further prevented from moving by the collar studs. To get round this, I replace the studs with smooth buttons. The rear one can be sewn on quite easily, the front one is a little more difficult. it requires a shank, that's a small gap between the button and the shirt, to allow room for four button holes. One each side of the shirt and one each side of the collar. To create a shank, you place the button in position, then lay a matchstick or similar across the button, between the holes. sew the match and button to the shirt, when finished leave a long length of thread. Remove the match, pull the button up and wind the long length of thread behind it, tying off the end to secure it.

To help the tie slide under the collar I use half of a spring loaded clothes peg. The wedge shape slides up under the tie, I use one each side, just about under the ear. This keeps the collar apart just sufficiently to help the tie slide into position. Often the peg will fall but there's enough time before it does to finish the tie off. After removing the pegs, readjust the tie. It takes a bit of practice to master but once learned, never forgotten. The things that you learn in school.

 

[JAH]

Very helpful suggestions - thank you. I'll have an experiment and see where I get... Out of interest, where do people buy their vintage ties?

 

[Hap Hapablap]

Fortunately where I live there is an abundance of minimally lined "cravat" style shorty 20s-40s ties at vintage shops. I think because no one else wants them. Buying them online can be a gamble. Like any item, it's nice to be able to touch it, check for stains, etc. If you are interested in buying, I have an abundance of them.

 

[JAH]

Fortunately where I live there is an abundance of minimally lined "cravat" style shorty 20s-40s ties at vintage shops. I think because no one else wants them. Buying them online can be a gamble. Like any item, it's nice to be able to touch it, check for stains, etc. If you are interested in buying, I have an abundance of them.

I could be - do you have anything that might work for an Edwardian look? Perhaps dots, or paisley?

 

[LeBois46]

Fortunately where I live there is an abundance of minimally lined "cravat" style shorty 20s-40s ties at vintage shops. I think because no one else wants them. Buying them online can be a gamble. Like any item, it's nice to be able to touch it, check for stains, etc. If you are interested in buying, I have an abundance of them.

Have any repp ties?

 

[Hap Hapablap]

What I have is much more 30s and very short. Probably not the best bet. Definitely meant to be worn with trousers that go up to one's ribcage. Sorry! Also, LeBois46, no repp ties unfortunately!

 

[JAH]

What I have is much more 30s and very short. Probably not the best bet. Definitely meant to be worn with trousers that go up to one's ribcage. Sorry! Also, LeBois46, no repp ties unfortunately!

No problem - thanks anyway!

 

[BlueTrain]

I once ordered a few made-to-measure shirts from an English shirt maker back in the late 1960s. They were wonderful shirts, I thought at the time, because I never cared for the sort of soft collar that dress shirts had then. That is, not in the places I bought clothes. My favorite was made of nylon, which was somewhat fashionable at the time in England. I also ordered one with detachable collars, more as a learning experience as anything else, although it turned out that I used the shirt without the collar a lot more often. I don't remember that it was especially difficult to adjust the tie. But the thicker and wider ties that became fashionable were just around the corner.

I think clip-on or pre-tied ties have been around longer than any of us. They were still issuing collarless shirts in British service in the 1960s but they finally got used up and were not to be seen again.

 

[Cobden]

I personally find much success with the following method:

Ignore collar. Tie tie around your neck, get it perfect.
Loosen tie, pull over your head
Insert tie into collar. Fix in place with paper clips. Yes, paper clips.
Pull collar-tie assembly over noggin
Affix collar using front and year studs
Tighten tie
Remove paper clips

 

[RW Observer]

I'm part of the minority that still wears a wing collar and necktie as daily wear, but occasionally I'll wear one of the double round collars with a necktie (the Darcy collar exactly) and I did encounter the exact problem. I attempted the paperclip method but the collar seemed too tight to move the tie even an inch. My best bet, as another person mentioned, is to tie the knot as close to the opening of the collar as possible. Suffice to say, the inconvenience is another reason why I always go with a wing collar or imperial collar every day.

 

[Anva]

I wear a double round collar on a regular basis. After some frustration, I figured out how to arrange things fairly easily:

-don shirt without collar
-tie the tie loosely around the neck
-fasten the collar at the back and the first layer at the front
-place the tie knot in front of the stud hole of the not yet fastened side of the collar, even move it a little further if possible
-insert the tie band into the collar, making your way around your neck, always keeping the knot in place
-finally fasten the second side of the collar
You should now have a fastened collar with the tie knot in the correct position. Now just pull the remaining excess tie band through the knot as usual and you are done.

 

[JAH]

Thanks everyone. Some interesting ideas I haven't heard before. I'll post the results of my experiments on here, once my new collar has arrived...

 

[JAH]

So here's the result of a brief experiment... I tied the knot first, then removed it and inserted the tie into the collar, with the knot as close to the right side of the collar as possible. Shirt with back of collar attached went on, with tie loop going over the head, then kept the knot on the far right whilst fastening both side to the front stud. Once fastened, pulling the tie tighter basically brought it into this position.

 

[Dreamofgilgamesh]

That's a pretty good effort and exactly the way I do mine. I sometimes think it'd be nice to get the knot higher but then on the other hand if you've polished the front stud nicely I think it looks quiet attractive.

 

[Anva]

It seems to be quite impossible to position the knot higher on the collar band - and have it stay there. And looking at period photographs, it seems to have never been possible, either.