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Help out an Aero newbie
- Thread starter Dbrn
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Someone, can’t remember the user name, posted pics of his broken in A2 in seal jerky HH a while back. Jerky HH is not dyed through, it has a top coat and lighter tones underneath that will show through with wear.
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Looks cool! But I'm thinking I won't go the HH route because of how much I've read on here about steer being softer and having just as nice a hand. So right now I'm hoping to find some CX steer in a brown I like; if not, I might do goat. It seems it won't age as nicely as CXL, but it's more the weight I wanted anyway, and if the color's right then I think it would be the best balanced decision.
Jerky HH is not stiff at all though, it’s quite soft and pliable. Much more so than cxl steer in my experience.
The Aero goat is super nice, and I think it would be much more suited for a spring/summer jacket.
coloradorider
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Chrome tanned goat doesn't age essentially and has a very light hand. Think extremely heavy lambskin that's tough as nails. I saw an 80 year old A-2 made of chrome-tanned goat that looked brand new (except for the lining...)!
Vegetable tanned goat has a crisper/stiffer feel to it and wears more than it ages. Where it wears against things the surface finish will come off and give different shades of color.
I think they both have their place and some of my favorite jackets are a Langlitz in brown chrome-tanned goatskin, a Goodwear M-422 in chrome-tanned goatskin, and an Aero vegetable tanned 30's halfbelt. Check out Jansolo's thread which I used for inspiration.
It seems you're leaning toward CXL for your first jacket and that's a great choice. Miles different from either tanning style of goat.
Someone, can’t remember the user name, posted pics of his broken in A2 in seal jerky HH a while back. Jerky HH is not dyed through, it has a top coat and lighter tones underneath that will show through with wear.
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CXL also will fade. My black CXL already starts to show brown after one year. I personally love the jerky HH, perfect structure, strength & weight. The CXL is a densely compressed leather, lots of oil are pressed into the closely packed fibres. It heavy by mass without needing to be thick. The FQHH is actually a tad thinner than say Langlitz cow-horse-goat, but it weighs more.
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Huh?!? Admittedly I'm a total newb, and I realize there's all kinds of subjectivity build into these opinions, but I'm quite confused by the possibility that jerky HH might be softer than CXL steer (based on my research this week). Can you elaborate on this at all, @torfjord? Can anyone else elaborate or offer a counter-opinion?
@torfjord, can you tell me more about why goat would make a better spring/summer jacket? That's what I've read, but I'm still not sure why. Is it simply that a lighter leather would hold in less heat, or something else?
The CXL steer is thick and stuffed with waxes that take some time to soften up. Eventually, it will be softer and pliable. I believe the jerky horse is from Europe- tanned totally differently, and a thinner hide. I have heard mixed reviews over the years. More samples...
Handymike already answered your question about cxl steer vs jerky HH, but in short, the jerky HH is a mid weight leather and CXL steer is a heavy weight leather. It is less stiff than cxl HH, but the waxes and oils that it is packed with still makes it stiffer than most other leathers used for jackets.
As for the goat, it is lighter and very easy wearing. When I wear cxl I’m always aware of the jacket because of its weight. Not so with goat, it is very comfortable and you have a great range of motion in an aero goat jacket.
While leather isn’t a material that offer a lot in terms of protection from serious cold, my experience is that heavier oil-packed cxl will be harder to wear in warm weather than goat. I think you’ll get more wear out of goat or another mid weight leather if you’re looking to build a summer jacket.
El Marro
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You need samples my friend! You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned subjectivity because every one of us has different qualities that we prize above others when it comes to our leather jackets. I think you’ve gotten a lot of good input from all of the members who posted here, but there is no substitute for getting your hands on as many samples as you can and then handling them to decide which seems best to you.
@handymike and @torfjord Thanks for the technical information, that helps a lot!
@El Marro I agree! I've made the request to Holly, so hopefully I'll hear back early in the week.
I truly appreciate all the feedback members have provided so far - I'm far better informed than I was just last week! I'm going to restate a question I posted earlier that hasn't received any response, in case it my have gotten lost in the shuffle. As always, guidance is greatly appreciated:
Can anyone tell me how Aero does the PtP, Sleeve, Shoulder and Back measurements they list on their sale jackets? I'm trying to use a corduroy jacket I have to compare, but I'm not sure exactly where to start and stop measuring, when to go straight across or curve, etc., and I can't find any guides on the Aero site or by googling.
@El Marro I agree! I've made the request to Holly, so hopefully I'll hear back early in the week.
I truly appreciate all the feedback members have provided so far - I'm far better informed than I was just last week! I'm going to restate a question I posted earlier that hasn't received any response, in case it my have gotten lost in the shuffle. As always, guidance is greatly appreciated:
Can anyone tell me how Aero does the PtP, Sleeve, Shoulder and Back measurements they list on their sale jackets? I'm trying to use a corduroy jacket I have to compare, but I'm not sure exactly where to start and stop measuring, when to go straight across or curve, etc., and I can't find any guides on the Aero site or by googling.
I don't have any pictures to illustrate at the moment, but:
P2P: zip the jacket up, lay flat, stretch the jacket out and measure straight across the front from armpit to armpit
Sleeve: measure from the shoulder seam straight down to the end of the cuff. Do not curve around the arm, but go straight down.
Shoulder: measure straight across between the shoulder seams.
Back: measure from the collar seam (i.e. don't include the collar when you measure) straight down to the end of the hem.
Hope that helps.
P2P: zip the jacket up, lay flat, stretch the jacket out and measure straight across the front from armpit to armpit
Sleeve: measure from the shoulder seam straight down to the end of the cuff. Do not curve around the arm, but go straight down.
Shoulder: measure straight across between the shoulder seams.
Back: measure from the collar seam (i.e. don't include the collar when you measure) straight down to the end of the hem.
Hope that helps.
Perfect, thanks torfjord, just what I was hoping for!
Hi everyone,
I've continued lurking and learning as I've been contemplating my purchase, and I'd love some feedback from the community regarding my latest quandry.
I've decided I do need a fit jacket in order to be comfortable making this purchase, and have been in touch with Carrie at Thurston. I explained what I'm hoping for look-wise, and she recommended the Hooch Hauler over the Bootlegger. I'm comfortable with that, especially given all the amazing photos @Radz108 has posted of his midnight blue HH. But then @ProteinNerd posted these amazing pics of his ELMC Windward, which looks really amazing, and I'm wondering about investigating that jacket, despite its higher cost.
Does anyone have any opinions about the pros and cons of Aero vs ELMC, or the Windward vs the Hooch Hauler? Are these jackets relatively comparable (as they appear to me), or are there any substantial design/fit differences?
I've continued lurking and learning as I've been contemplating my purchase, and I'd love some feedback from the community regarding my latest quandry.
I've decided I do need a fit jacket in order to be comfortable making this purchase, and have been in touch with Carrie at Thurston. I explained what I'm hoping for look-wise, and she recommended the Hooch Hauler over the Bootlegger. I'm comfortable with that, especially given all the amazing photos @Radz108 has posted of his midnight blue HH. But then @ProteinNerd posted these amazing pics of his ELMC Windward, which looks really amazing, and I'm wondering about investigating that jacket, despite its higher cost.
Does anyone have any opinions about the pros and cons of Aero vs ELMC, or the Windward vs the Hooch Hauler? Are these jackets relatively comparable (as they appear to me), or are there any substantial design/fit differences?
Took the ELMC Windward out for a quick spin on the bike this morning.
Radz108
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Thank you for the compliment regarding my photos of my HH
. In regards to the HH and the ELMC windward, I believe they are 2 fairly different jacket designs. The only similarity imho is that they are both aviator/vintage style cross zips. I don't own a windward but based on the very knowledge patrons of this forum, the Italian leather used for it is about 2oz and quite soft out of the box (based on what I heard it is similar to Vicenza but thinner and softer - not 100% sure). It only comes in brown and black. It has a halfbelt but the waist cinchers are elastic garters vs cinch straps in the HH. It has a cool pocket design in front but a fairly simple one piece back. Based on the pictures I've seen, it is a trim fit.In regards to the Hooch Hauler (HH), it can be made with a large variety of leathers and colours. Its base spec has a simple 3 pocket design in front but a very cool back design. Fit is slim and similar to the STF bootlegger according to Carrie at TB.
Both are beautiful jacket designs and you will be happy with either. If I had to choose only one (warning biased here
), I would still choose the Hooch Hauler. 1. it's cheaper. and 2. I have significantly more options (leather, accessories, fit) to choose from with Aero to make the jacket custom to me. Another option is to look at the Vanson Gambler which Ton owns. Its design is similar to the windward but significantly cheaper and you have the ability to do a custom order through Carrie as well.Cheers
Radz
ProteinNerd
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Regarding the ELMC Windward, there are stylistic differences that @Radz108 has pointed out. I really like his Midnight jacket but I still wouldn't trade the Windward....maybe my Aero Bootlegger but not my Windward lol
There are pros and cons to both....the obvious solution is to get both but....
1. Fit/Colour. You can't customise the Windward, it's just Black or Brown and regular or long fit. IF you fit the Eastman pattern though, they are amazing jackets.
2. Leather. Personally I prefer the leather Eastman use over the Vicenza, and that's with experience of 7 different Vicenza jackets. Dont get me wrong, its great but I prefer the Eastman HH. Obviously an issue if you don't want black or brown.
3. Lining. The windward comes with a fairly substantial quilted lining which makes it pretty warm again this can't be changed. Are you looking for a warmer jacket? The Aero you can specify what lining you want.
4. Mobility. The windward hands down beats any Aero jacket I've owned, even those with an action back. Despite being a pretty darn snug fit, the underarm football construction on the Eastman is vastly superior for Range of Motion.
5. Side Elastic. This always gets mentioned. I don't love the look but now I don't even notice them. The benefit is they are elastic and give and take automatically and actually work better than the static hold synch style.
You really need to first work out if the OTR fit of the Eastman will work for you, no use agonising over the details between these two great jackets if one just doesn't fit you very well.
There are pros and cons to both....the obvious solution is to get both but....
1. Fit/Colour. You can't customise the Windward, it's just Black or Brown and regular or long fit. IF you fit the Eastman pattern though, they are amazing jackets.
2. Leather. Personally I prefer the leather Eastman use over the Vicenza, and that's with experience of 7 different Vicenza jackets. Dont get me wrong, its great but I prefer the Eastman HH. Obviously an issue if you don't want black or brown.
3. Lining. The windward comes with a fairly substantial quilted lining which makes it pretty warm again this can't be changed. Are you looking for a warmer jacket? The Aero you can specify what lining you want.
4. Mobility. The windward hands down beats any Aero jacket I've owned, even those with an action back. Despite being a pretty darn snug fit, the underarm football construction on the Eastman is vastly superior for Range of Motion.
5. Side Elastic. This always gets mentioned. I don't love the look but now I don't even notice them. The benefit is they are elastic and give and take automatically and actually work better than the static hold synch style.
You really need to first work out if the OTR fit of the Eastman will work for you, no use agonising over the details between these two great jackets if one just doesn't fit you very well.
Thank you for the compliment regarding my photos of my HH
In regards to the Hooch Hauler (HH), it can be made with a large variety of leathers and colours. Its base spec has a simple 3 pocket design in front but a very cool back design. Fit is slim and similar to the STF bootlegger according to Carrie at TB.
Both are beautiful jacket designs and you will be happy with either. If I had to choose only one (warning biased here
Cheers
Radz
@Radz108 and @ProteinNerd, thanks for the great details pointing out some of the jacket elements I glossed over by focusing on style. Since I don't ride, don't want a thicker lining, and want the customizability of the Aero, I'm going to stay on that track (and save a bit of cash too).
Very excited to start my order with Thurston tomorrow!
Leather samples I requested from Aero arrived today (it's been about 3 weeks so I'd pretty much given up)! I'm keeping them close to hand and playing with them a little too much . I'm definitely leaning toward the stiffer/heavier leathers, despite wanting a spring/fall jacket, as they just feel so wonderful.
But here's my question: one of the samples is "Horween Mustang," which I'm unfamiliar with. I've tried googling and can't come up with much about it. It's definitely thinner, lighter, and less stiff than the FQHH and heavy steerhide. But it also has a unique pattern among the samples, which I kind of like. Is Mustang a kind of FQHH, or some other kind of HH? Is it as high quality as FQHH, durability-wise? Will it develop the kind of color variation and patina as FQHH?
Thoughts on any of these matters would be appreciated!
. I'm definitely leaning toward the stiffer/heavier leathers, despite wanting a spring/fall jacket, as they just feel so wonderful. But here's my question: one of the samples is "Horween Mustang," which I'm unfamiliar with. I've tried googling and can't come up with much about it. It's definitely thinner, lighter, and less stiff than the FQHH and heavy steerhide. But it also has a unique pattern among the samples, which I kind of like. Is Mustang a kind of FQHH, or some other kind of HH? Is it as high quality as FQHH, durability-wise? Will it develop the kind of color variation and patina as FQHH?
Thoughts on any of these matters would be appreciated!
Thanks @handymike. I'd read the first two but not the third one. Not a ton of info about the leather, but some awesome pictures!
As a newbie I'm confused about the lack of discussion about this particular leather, only in the face of all the *extensive* discussion of so many other leathers. Not a critique or anything, just very surprising that there isn't more explicit info about Mustang out there.
If I don't enjoy the... floppiness/lack of stiffness of certain leather samples, is that a good indication that I wouldn't enjoy a jacket in that leather? Put another way, how closely does stiffness/softness of a leather sample correlate with the feel of a jacket made with it? Any thoughts out there?
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