Footwear to go with our jackets

[Pandemic]

Bit of advice needed please:

My eye has been taken by some Grinders Camelot boots. Down at the budget end of things, I know, but I really like the classic WWII styling. Look;

But I've never owned Grinders before. Can anyone with any experience of the brand give me a clue how generous their sizing is, please?

I tend to be an EU44, lately, but something tells me Grinders might size big.

TIA.

I can’t help with your questions but Grinders have a good reputation and those look really nice. I wore some similar Portuguese and French army surplus boots years ago.

 

[marker2037]

Carmina full custom boot review

About the maker

As much as I like the looks of all those beautiful rugged style boots, personally I’m more of a dress shoe/boot type of guy. I’m quite familiar with European mid-tier to high end makers like Crockett & Jones, Santoni, Edward Green or Gaziano & Girling. One maker I hadn’t tried yet was ‘Carmina Shoemaker’, a Spanish shoemaker situated in Palma de Mallorca.

Carmina is well known for their goodwear welted shoes and for their use of cordovan and exotic leathers, of which they offer many colors. Prices are very reasonable, a pair of OTR Horween cordovan boots can be bought for just €890.

Carmina not only offers OTR or GMTO (group made to order), they also offer full customization. A fancy webtool allows you to select your preferred type of leather, last, sole, hardware, stitching etc etc. The custom fee is 23% but twice a year they have their ‘custom weekend’ when the custom fee is waived on all made to order pairs. I decided to give it a try.

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Inspiration and choices

I used these ‘loden suede’ Alden NSP (Norwegian split toe) as inspiration. Why not just buy the Aldens? Aldens are not widely available in Europe, plus they’re crazy expensive. A pair of Alden suede jumper boots cost between €800 - €900. Which is way too expensive for what you get imo.

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Last week Carmina launched a brand new customization tool with much more customization options than offered by the previous tool. I ordered mine back in June using the old tool which didn’t give the option to custom select the color of the stitching or the finishing on the sole (eg fudging). I chose a Forest EEE last with Tramuntana sole and chestnut color edge. Loden suede upper with vintage brass eyelets and speed hooks. Because I wanted contrast stitching I added a pic of the Aldens to my order form, requesting similar contrast stitching.

Delivery time and first (disappointing) impression

Standard delivery time on custom orders is 45 days, mine were delivered 38 days after putting in my order. When I opened the box there was disappointment. The suede was more green than loden and the boots had natural color soles. Also, the stitching on the soles looked very sloppy and there was a deep scratch on the lining of one of the boots.

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It’s unreasonable to expect perfect and flawless stitching at this price point so I wasn’t going to complain about it. But I really didn’t like the color of the sole and the scratch on the lining really bugged me. I decided to contact Carmina, who offered a 15% discount on my next order or a full remake. I opted for the remake. Because of the sloppy stitching on the sole I requested non-contrast stitching for the remake, which would make it stand out less in case the new ones would not be perfectly stitched either.

To my surprise I had to wait another 45 days for the remake to be completed. I would have expected them to do the remake right away since it wasn’t my fault the shoes had the wrong color sole. Anyway, not worth to make a fuzz about it.

After waiting for two months without hearing anything I contacted Carmina, asking for an update. I was told the shoes would be shipped that very week. One week later still no shoes so I contacted them again. They apologized for the delay and I was told they would be shipped asap.

The remake

Asap turned out to be another week later. When I finally received the boots yesterday, there was a pleasant surprise when I opened the box because this time the upper was more loden than green. They also used different color thread on the toe box and they added soft fudging to the welt (just like on the Aldens that served as inspiration).

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Quality

Overall the remake looks quite good. I say quite good because they’re definitely not perfect.

The pro’s

-The boots are well made with neat stitching (on the uppers) without any hanging threads

-they did a good job protecting the suede during production, as there is no marking on the suede where the upper meets the welt.

-the stormwelt is nice and straight all around

-they feel very comfortable right out of the box. Giving the right amount of support without being too stiff

-Customer service. Carmina didn’t make a fuzz about the remake and they were very fast in replying my emails. Because the remake was delayed, they thrown in a cordovan leather cardholder which I think is a very nice gesture.

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The cons

-the stitching on the soles looks messy. Especially at the point where the start and the end of the welt meet.

-there are some stains on the stormwelt from coloring the sole.

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(Initial pair and remake)


Let’s compare this with a couple of benchgrade Crockett & Jones (which are slightly more expensive). As you can see the C&J’s aren’t all that neat either. I’d say the finishing on the Carmina soles is pretty much at the same level as the C&J’s.

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What does neat look like? I don’t own any high end shoes/boots with a storm welt, but this is what a 270 degree welt looks like on 10+ year old Edward Greens. Of course this is not a fair comparison because a pair of Edward Greens is three times more expensive.

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The verdict

I’m very pleased with end result. The remake looks very close the Alden NST tanker boots and I’d say the quality is comparable. Yet these full custom Carmina’s were considerably cheaper at €489. They’re also cheaper than bench grade C&J’s, which makes them great value. But Carmina offers something no other shoemaker offers at this price point (or anything near), which is full customization. Being able to customize your shoes is a lot of fun as the options are endless. Whether you’re looking for a dress shoe/boot or something a bit more rugged like a pair of jodhpurs with triple leather sole and Cuban heels, everything is possible.

Few more pics

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Initial VS remake


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Nice post Marc! So you wanted these, eh?

I think you did quite well! I have been a Carmina fan for many years now, since I first got into GYW shoes and boots.

I actually own 3 pairs of Carmina shoes, one of which I wore at my wedding. In my opinion, my shoes are near flawless and cleaner than even my Aldens. They aren’t Edward Green clean (I own Dovers), but they also aren’t anywhere near the price.

They are the best bang for your buck in the field if you ask me and I was always very close to pulling the trigger on that same style that you bought, just never did and then the Aldens came out which I grabbed.

Edit: this forum is becoming unusable for me with how the site constantly times out and then somehow gets stuck where I cannot get in without switching networks. I hotspot my phone in order to get in, yet my internet speed is fine with every other site.

 

[ABCD]

Edit: this forum is becoming unusable for me with how the site constantly times out and then somehow gets stuck where I cannot get in without switching networks. I hotspot my phone in order to get in, yet my internet speed is fine with every other site.

Same issues here, website is extremely unstable. Very annoying.

 

[marker2037]

Took some shots today of my current boot rotation.

White’s MP-Sherman half lug - Dark brown waxed flesh

Alden x Ealdwine “Caberrus” NST Tanker - Loden suede

Alden x Epaulet Wingtip boots - Snuff suede

Alden 405 Indy’s

Alden x Ealdwine “Double J Indy” - Milkshake suede

TBC…

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Carmina does an amazing job for their price point. I still have one pair of Chelsea boots from them and they are quite nice. Compared to the Aldens I've handled, Carmina is vastly superior in finishing, but that's no surprise because Alden loses out to many brands below their price point. Alden quality is shoddy enough that it's prevented me from purchasing a pair from them, despite how much I like the look of their boots.

 

[marker2037]

…..

Allen Edmonds Hamilton trunk show custom- Burgundy shell cordovan

Allen Edmonds Hamilton - Tan nubuck

Allen Edmonds Higgins Mill - natural chromexcel

Allen Edmonds Higgins Mill - Cordovan Buccaneer

Alden x Ealdwine Indy - reverse tobacco chamois

Rancourt Byron - Flint kudu suede

Carlos Santos x Skoaktieboaget apron front derby - Guimaraes

Carlos Santos x Skoaktieboaget Field boot - Cocoa and mink suede

TBC…

 

[marker2037]

…

J. Fitzpatrick Westlake button boots - Mustard medley tweed/tan soft grain

Lof & Tung Cole - dark brown Utah calf

Fin.

 

[marker2037]

Carmina does an amazing job for their price point. I still have one pair of Chelsea boots from them and they are quite nice. Compared to the Aldens I've handled, Carmina is vastly superior in finishing, but that's no surprise because Alden loses out to many brands below their price point. Alden quality is shoddy enough that it's prevented me from purchasing a pair from them, despite how much I like the look of their boots.

I certainly wouldn’t call them shoddy. I love my Aldens. They aren’t perfect, but are far from shoddy.

 

[marker2037]

Finally, my latest boot purchase which I made on a whim in regards to both style and sizing. I have never been an engineer or non-lace up type of guy, but they have recently grown a bit on me and I decided to see what the fuss is all about.

John Lofgren burnt burgundy Ezo deerskin engineers

The color and fact they are deerskin were what was most intriguing to me. I had to gamble on the size with a 9D (I brannock 10D) as it was the only one left with no 9.5D. I am thinking they should stretch a bit being deer and I also hate heelslip, so I hope the smaller size gives me a nice snug feel. Hope they fit and I hope I like them, otherwise I will offer them up here.

 

[Dumpster Diver]

Recently picked up a pair of Acton brand 'Galoshes' to slip over my red wing boots, I didn't realize you needed plastic bags!!

Clunky.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I certainly wouldn’t call them shoddy. I love my Aldens. They aren’t perfect, but are far from shoddy.

I've seen plenty of actual shoddy work from them. I am not the only one. I'm glad that you enjoy yours. This isn't to say everything they do is shoddy. I'm sure they pump out some solid boots. My point is that the risk isn't worth it for me.

Those Lofgrens look amazing! I went down .5 from Brannock, but I've heard of people going down a full size. I hope it works out for you because those look awesome.

 

[Jin431]

RM Williams. Not a fan of leather soles but these boots are quite nice.

 

[Monitor]

These aren't much, old-ish Sendras that are mainly my bad-weather beaters but they really got the right shape there. I wish leather was better but still, fun boots.

 

[jonbuilder]

…..

Allen Edmonds Hamilton trunk show custom- Burgundy shell cordovan
View attachment 376712

Allen Edmonds Hamilton - Tan nubuck
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Allen Edmonds Higgins Mill - natural chromexcel
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Allen Edmonds Higgins Mill - Cordovan Buccaneer
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Alden x Ealdwine Indy - reverse tobacco chamois
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Rancourt Byron - Flint kudu suede
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Carlos Santos x Skoaktieboaget apron front derby - Guimaraes
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Carlos Santos x Skoaktieboaget Field boot - Cocoa and mink suede
View attachment 376719

TBC…

Do you own stock in Alden?

 

[marker2037]

Do you own stock in Alden?

More like Allen Edmonds as they dominate my shoes.

 

[Edward]

I hate driving enough to not own a motorized transport and I have a dog. That alone amounts to some nice daily mileage, whatever it is you plan on doing that day. Walking is fun.

I don't know why, I'm getting more and more reluctant to even climb into that metal box with wheels. I dislike being driven somewhere! The smell of the plastic interior doesn't help. . .

I hear you. I haven't owned a car since I moved to London. Once in a blue moon I miss one, but not enough that I'd really want one - I never enjoyed driving, let alone what a money-pit cars are. Wherever I've been, I've always preferred public transport in the city.

Corthay Paris, bespoke Oxfords.

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Can't see me wearing those, but I enjoy that they exist. Put me in mind of something that Vivienne Westwood might have put out circa Buffalo Gals; would certainly go with the BG hat that Pharrell later wore.

Bit of advice needed please:

My eye has been taken by some Grinders Camelot boots. Down at the budget end of things, I know, but I really like the classic WWII styling. Look;

But I've never owned Grinders before. Can anyone with any experience of the brand give me a clue how generous their sizing is, please?

I tend to be an EU44, lately, but something tells me Grinders might size big.

TIA.

I've had a couple of pairs of Grinders. A pair of lace-up shoes very much like these, except obvs shorter, and a pair of engineer boots. The shoes are grand size-wise, I took the same UK 8M/US9D/ EU42 in them as in almost everything else (including RedWing Iron Rangers and 2268s, and Chippewa engineers) and they are great. The Engineer boots I have are the "Wild One" model - shiny, smooth, black leather, very chunky commando sole, steel toecap. The 7 was definitely too small for me - I could get them on, but my foot was curled up and I know it would not have worked after a break-in (I'm not a fan of buying shoes that are too small and wearing them til they stretch anyhow, but....). The 8 was a touch too loose (like it was a 'wide' when I needed a 'narrow'), though a good, thick foam insole snugged it up perfectly. Had it been a lace-up boot, I suspect I'd have been fine. FWIW, I kept the first pair I bought (size 7s, bought online) and my wife wears them now. She tends to wear a ladies 8, and in mens / 'uni***' boots varies between a seven and an eight depending on width. The 7s worked fine for her in those, they were just about 3/4" too short for me and the arch hit in the wrong place on my foot.

The short of it is I'd go for your regular size and not size down. Quality-wise, my Grinders are vastly superior to almost anything else comparable in their price range. Hardware is very nice, and the straps aren't overly-flimsy (I've encountered thin and flimsy leather straps on some surprisingly expensive boots before now). Workmanship can vary a little from what I hear, but on mine the standard of sewing et cetera is as good as anything else I own. The negatives for the engineer boots is that they are somewhat agricultural, lacking in the same elegance as my RWs / Chippewas. They have their own aesthetic, but of course for the style of boot you're looking at, that works very well indeed. The leather on my Grinders engineers is not up to the same quality as my RW / Chipps, but its certainly not bad - and a third of the price. I toyed with the idea of clearing them out once I got the 2268s, but in then end I decided to keep them, as the soles make them great for extremes of weather and conditions to which I might think twice about wearing 'nice' boots. If you fancy a pair of a WW2 military style but in a black, civilian mode and don't expect too much for the price band, you should find these perfectly serviceable.

 

[Monitor]

Bit of advice needed please:

My eye has been taken by some Grinders Camelot boots. Down at the budget end of things, I know, but I really like the classic WWII styling. Look;

But I've never owned Grinders before. Can anyone with any experience of the brand give me a clue how generous their sizing is, please?

I tend to be an EU44, lately, but something tells me Grinders might size big.

TIA.

I have Grinders but I can't be of much help because they're not all made at the same place.

Pair that I have are Harness Hi boots, made in Mexico, something that the site is particularly proud of but for a reason as they're actually very nice. Much better than what you'd expect at such a price range. Goodyear welted. Leather sole. Un-coated, naked cowhide that's very thick and heavy. It's got that natural texture (you can find a bite mark here and there). It all adds up to a very nice pair of harness boots with a killer shape.
Seriously, coolest harness boot shape on the market!

Stitching is somewhat shoddy but since this doesn't affect the functionality of the boot in any way, I personally couldn't care less.

So yeah, their biker/western line is great. I can vouch for it. As @Edward stated, they're your best bet at under $200 & you'd have to pay a lot more to get something that significantly outclasses Grinders.

On the other hand, I've read many negative reviews prior to buying my pair and the only reason I decided to give them a chance is 'cause every single bad experience was about lace-ups. You'll find photos of these falling apart after three wears, etc., so I really don't know what to tell you. I heard they used to be a lot better some decade ago but the quality went south since. But I haven't done much research...

I know they're a lot cheaper, glued, made God knows where & how and honestly, I don't think you can get a good boot for under $100.

My Grinders. You can see they're on point in every way.

 

[Jin431]

Onderhoud engineer boots in black Maryam horse ****. Hope this doesn't develop loose grain.

 

[Jules Myers]

 

[Jin431]

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wow, the leather looks so nice. Congrats