Can a HH jacket still be good quality, even if the HH isn't Shinki?

[AeroFan_07]

Maybe just spend a few days reading threads here.

My thought too. I have been observing this a lot - people starting new threads to ask questions that have been dealt with many times over prior. Really folks should read first, and search - use the function, it works.

I have owned two Shinki horsehide jackets and was not very impressed with either of them TBH.
You can read my reviews or sale of one of them below:

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/diamond-dave-j21-buco-horsehide.96166/

 

[Carlos840]

I've handled a few Shinki jackets and found the leather attractive, but am I right in not trusting its ability to stand up to weather? I don't know why, but I got the feeling that it just wouldn't provide any protection against heavy rain, for example.

And I've seen some comments on TFL lately that seem to verify that.

So actually, is Shinki just a glorified fashion leather? Does it have any real practical value beyond maybe some warmth?

This is a real question. I'm curious if Shinki is so impractical, how did we get to the place where this new guy thinks its the only quality leather there is?

On the other hand, if it is actually quality leather that can stand up to the elements, then I should change my attitude toward it...

To me Shinki is "parade leather", it looks great, wears well, but it's definitely not waterproof or motorcycle safe.
It's leather to make "leather jacket art", not functional jackets in the "tool" sens.

At least that is how i see them after owning/wearing a lot of different grade of Shinki leather.
It's great leather, but i have not handled any that felt "tough".

Saying that i would not call it "fashion leather" to me that term is reserved to leathers like "Nappa calfskin, or Nappa Lambskin", the kind of leathers that are described as "soft, smooth and supple"

 

[cbez]

The shinki rainbow country I sold here was quite firm, thick, and plenty waterproof.

Avoid painting every single leather made by a tannery with broad brush strokes, it looks foolish.

 

[El Marro]

My thought too. I have been observing this a lot - people starting new threads to ask questions that have been dealt with many times over prior. Really folks should read first, and search - use the function, it works.

Actually people should feel free to do whatever they want on this forum, including starting ridiculous threads. And to my knowledge, this specific question has never been dealt with, and it’s about time that it was.
Now to the OP, I used to think that Shinki was ok but now I only wear jackets that are made from Shinki Hikaku leather. If it doesn’t have the Hikaku on the end I don’t want it.

 

[raf]

I've learned a lot from this thread. Mostly that my used leather jackets, somehow in great shape after decades, are inferior.

 

[whitetail_country]

Ok, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assume, you ARE serious:

Shinki is "just" a tannery, not a leather quality. They produce all sorts of leathers.

Many tanneries are capable of producing leathers that are not only top-quality but will also last you half a lifetime. That´s true not only for horse, but also for steerhide, cowhide or even "lighter" options such as goat.

All of them produce a wide variety of leathers. If you take the famous Horween tannery of Chicago, they produce horsehide ranging from super-thick chrome-tanned Front-Quarter hides to more "fashion" oriented tannages or leathers that are pliable from the get-go.
All of them very good and durable quality.

My best bet would be to look at the makers. All of the names we discuss here give at least some insight into the quality of the leather, the tannage and some disclose even the tannery itself.
None of the "artisanal" makers will use split-hides or hides that are otherwise defective (some use deliberately mis-mateched panels as a "statement", but that´s optical only).

I´d be somewhat wary of "fashion-brands", as they usually are intransparent about the actual leather used and have a tendency to use structurally weaker hides because they are much more easy wearing to the general public. They do get it right occasionally, though.

I´d definitely stay away from generic offerings of "internet-brands" using flashy descriptions but staying foggy about the leathers used.

You can read much more if you brouse through TFL a bit.

Thank you for your in depth response. You said that other tanneries will last half a lifetime, but it is common knowledge that Shinki will last a whole lifetime, making it the better value. I agree, I avoid fashion and internet brands like the Jacket Maker, Lewis Leathers, and Vanson that don't use Shinki Hikaku.

 

[whitetail_country]

This horse wasn't tanned by Shinki tannery. What makes you think your jacket would look any better?

https://postimg.cc/gnjb4HZv] [/url]

Are you sure this isn't a Shinki horse? I know that Shinki leather has the teacore properties, in which the brown undertones peek out. You can clearly see the brown coming through on the horse's feet. Plus the horse's chest looks shiny like shinki.

 

[whitetail_country]

I've learned a lot from this thread. Mostly that my used leather jackets, somehow in great shape after decades, are inferior.

Yes, inferior jackets will last 50 years, but Shinki HH will patina and last 100+ years! Non shinki jackets are not a buy it for life item.

 

[Harris HTM]

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

The shinki rainbow country I sold here was quite firm, thick, and plenty waterproof.

Avoid painting every single leather made by a tannery with broad brush strokes, it looks foolish.

Annnnndddd .... I disagree.

So did the U.S. government when it decided that what was foolish was putting soldiers into the trenches of WWI in vegetable-tanned leather. Those items literally rotted off those soldiers' bodies.

That's why when WWII rolled around, the Army ordered that all A-2s be made from chrome-tanned leather. (Maybe they ordered all leather items be chrome-tanned, I only know about A-2s).

I'm an over-the-road trucker. I drive the entire CONUS and into Canada. I need tools I can count on with my life. I face hail storms, wind storms, snow storms, tornados, hurricanes, extreme heat, extreme rain, extreme mud. I get soaking wet then drive five hours into a desert. We have to put on snow chains at the tops of mountains in the middle of a blizzard.

I have faced the very real possibility of being caught out in the middle of nowhere in a tornado. Luckily it didn't come my way, but if anything like that ever happens again, I want a jacket that's a tank.

And if all hell breaks lose in society and I have to walk 2000 miles to get back home, I want gear I know I can depend on for the trip.

So a Good Wear A-2 or a RMC Buco look damn cool, but I just don't trust them like I do a CXL leather or LW jacket.

So yeah, to me, Shinki seems like fashion leather. But I wasn't sure if I was being fair so I asked an overarching question about it: is there something about this leather that makes it somehow a remarkable vegetable-tanned leather that I can truly depend on?

None of the responses I have received have changed my mind.

 

[cbez]

despite all the paragraphs you're showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the tanning and finishing process.

There are two ways to waterproof a jacket, acrylic/plastic in a pigment top coat, or heavy wax and oil stuffing. Both can be done on veg tan leather, and both have been done by shinki many times.

Other than water permeability, any full grain decent quality leather will hold up fine to hard use. There is a reason leather panels generally survive and stitching/lining/zippers seem to be failure points.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

despite all the paragraphs you're showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the tanning and finishing process.

There are two ways to waterproof a jacket, acrylic/plastic in a pigment top coat, or heavy wax and oil stuffing. Both can be done on veg tan leather, and both have been done by shinki many times.

Other than water permeability, any full grain decent quality leather will hold up fine to hard use. There is a reason leather panels generally survive and stitching/lining/zippers seem to be failure points.

Despite all your condescension, your explanation still only sounds applicable to the short term. But my question comes down to this:

After 3-5 years of extremely hard, continuous wear, which jacket will I have to replace and which one will still keep on ticking: the LW J-24 or the RMC? The LW A-2 or the Good Wear? The LW G-1 or the Rainbow Country?

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. But for now I trust the LW more.

 

[cbez]

Despite all your condescension, your explanation still only sounds applicable to the short term. But my question comes down to this:

After 3-5 years of extremely hard, continuous wear, which jacket will I have to replace and which one will still keep on ticking: the LW J-24 or the RMC? The LW A-2 or the Good Wear? The LW G-1 or the Rainbow Country?

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. But for now I trust the LW more.

My answer is all of them would likely do fine barring some water permeability in heavy rain depending on how they were finished.

While leather isnt the best for permeability, warmth, breathability, durability etc these days it's still a very tough material.

You are pretty much off in vibes-based land. Can you give any concrete reason why you think a particular jacket would fall apart other than how some leather boots allegedly performed in battlefield trenches 100 years ago when they were staying wet and muddy for weeks on end?

 

[El Marro]

I'm an over-the-road trucker. I drive the entire CONUS and into Canada. I need tools I can count on with my life. I face hail storms, wind storms, snow storms, tornados, hurricanes, extreme heat, extreme rain, extreme mud. I get soaking wet then drive five hours into a desert. We have to put on snow chains at the tops of mountains in the middle of a blizzard

If you are really looking for the best clothing for extreme weather then leather jackets that were designed and perfected 70 to 100 years ago are not your best choice, but I’m sure you know that.

None of the responses I have received have changed my mind.

You are in a silly thread looking for serious answers, that’s a bad place to be.

 

[Biff42]

To me Shinki is "parade leather", it looks great, wears well, but it's definitely not waterproof or motorcycle safe.
It's leather to make "leather jacket art", not functional jackets in the "tool" sens.

At least that is how i see them after owning/wearing a lot of different grade of Shinki leather.
It's great leather, but i have not handled any that felt "tough".

Saying that i would not call it "fashion leather" to me that term is reserved to leathers like "Nappa calfskin, or Nappa Lambskin", the kind of leathers that are described as "soft, smooth and supple"

I think Stu from Lost Worlds would call it "social media" leather, LOL. That guy cracks me up.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

barring some water permeability in heavy rain...

I am not off in vibes-based land, I am in "heavy rain permeability" land. Even Google says Shinki doesn't like the rain.

And I doubt the U.S. Army based their jacket decisions on boot experience.

You and me, man.... like oil and water. Happy Thanksgiving to you.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

If you are really looking for the best clothing for extreme weather then leather jackets that were designed and perfected 70 to 100 years ago are not your best choice, but I’m sure you know that.

It's not extreme weather alone, it's the variety of the weather. To go from wet to desert in one day, and then up to snow and across to ice and wind - that's a lot for one piece of gear. And then do that over and over and over.

I believe leather is actually a good choice provided it's the right leather.

If leather is no good, I'll return to the old-fashioned wool pea coat, which is what I mostly depend on. It's timeless for weather but useless against missile hazards in a tornado (or just high winds).

 

[cbez]

New troll thread idea:

Guys is shinki ****ty fashion leather because I'm worried about how it will perform in a tornado or if I were dropped into the novel 'The Road' by bestselling author Cormac McCarthy?

 

[Margi92i]

Having some humor on the new in town guy question it's cool now but 10 years ago most of you dropped top dollar on Shinki and was the best leather, how was the agenda? lost worlds leather to plasticky, never breaking, never showing any character, cxl to waxy to stiff in the cold, badalassi to noisy, to non horsehide.. victory bill kelso to rare, to long to wait for it, don't like the company. Italian horse from schott to mall looking, to shinny. Vanson competion- it's not from 2000 era, burned down tannery, probably not good anymore and the list goes on..

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

New troll thread idea:

Guys is shinki ****ty fashion leather because I'm worried about how it will perform in a tornado or if I were dropped into the novel 'The Road' by bestselling author Cormac McCarthy?

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You sound like you have no idea what it actually means to work for a living.

I've got no polite response for this.