Can a HH jacket still be good quality, even if the HH isn't Shinki?

[whitetail_country]

Hello fellow loungers,

I recently purchased a made in Japan horsehide leather jacket. The product is described as being vegetable tanned and pit tanned.

However, the manufactuer didn't mention that it was tanned by Shinki.

Do you think the jacket will hold up in the long run?

 

[Harris HTM]

Hello fellow loungers,

I recently purchased a made in Japan horsehide leather jacket. The product is described as being vegetable tanned and pit tanned.

However, the manufactuer didn't mention that it was tanned by Shinki.

Do you think the jacket will hold up in the long run?

No. Only Shinki horsehide is good. Ignore all the rest.

 

[whitetail_country]

No. Only Shinki horsehide is good. Ignore all the rest.

Noted. I will see if I can return the jacket then. The only thing is that Shinki is a bit hard to come as it is so limited. I like the repro style but sometimes want something not too over the top vintage-y, but quality is the most important at the end of the day!

 

[MrProper]

You're not serious about your question, are you?
If you are, I would recommend that you read up on this thoroughly.

 

[TartuWolf]

I agree, it should be shinki or nothing. All other horsehide in the world should just be burned up - it's a disgrace in the presence of the all mighty SHINKEY!

 

[Tom71]

You're not serious about your question, are you?
If you are, I would recommend that you read up on this thoroughly.

Ok, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assume, you ARE serious:

Shinki is "just" a tannery, not a leather quality. They produce all sorts of leathers.

Many tanneries are capable of producing leathers that are not only top-quality but will also last you half a lifetime. That´s true not only for horse, but also for steerhide, cowhide or even "lighter" options such as goat.

All of them produce a wide variety of leathers. If you take the famous Horween tannery of Chicago, they produce horsehide ranging from super-thick chrome-tanned Front-Quarter hides to more "fashion" oriented tannages or leathers that are pliable from the get-go.
All of them very good and durable quality.

My best bet would be to look at the makers. All of the names we discuss here give at least some insight into the quality of the leather, the tannage and some disclose even the tannery itself.
None of the "artisanal" makers will use split-hides or hides that are otherwise defective (some use deliberately mis-mateched panels as a "statement", but that´s optical only).

I´d be somewhat wary of "fashion-brands", as they usually are intransparent about the actual leather used and have a tendency to use structurally weaker hides because they are much more easy wearing to the general public. They do get it right occasionally, though.

I´d definitely stay away from generic offerings of "internet-brands" using flashy descriptions but staying foggy about the leathers used.

You can read much more if you brouse through TFL a bit.

 

[Monitor]

No. And it's not just about whether jacket will hold up in the long run but your life may actually be in danger. Non-shinki horsehide, especially if it was pit tanned, releases toxic substances into the skin that it absorbed in the pit, tanning you in the process while reanimating the leather. You don't know what's going down in that pit. You think anybody ever cleans that pit? Ask yourself; Would you?

 

[Trouser Bark]

Need more info and maybe a few pics of what you have in order to give you a more accurate answer but I and pretty much everyone else here have several HH jackets and many of us have spent dearly on them. Horse has been the modern go-to standard for many work, riding and other jackets for more than a century.

What do you have?

 

[TartuWolf]

No. And it's not just about whether jacket will hold up in the long run but your life may actually be in danger. Non-shinki horsehide, especially if it was pit tanned, releases toxic substances into the skin that it absorbed in the pit, tanning you in the process while reanimating the leather. You don't know what's going down in that pit. You think anybody ever cleans that pit? Ask yourself; Would you?

I wouldn't. Filthy non-shinki pits. To hell with them.

 

[Trouser Bark]

No. And it's not just about whether jacket will hold up in the long run but your life may actually be in danger. Non-shinki horsehide, especially if it was pit tanned, releases toxic substances into the skin that it absorbed in the pit, tanning you in the process while reanimating the leather. You don't know what's going down in that pit. You think anybody ever cleans that pit? Ask yourself; Would you?

The best tanneries utilize the urine of the same horse the hide is from in the tanning process. Veg tanning sounds better than whiz tanning so marketing skunks use the term but yeah, I didn't know horse whiz was leaching into my skin. Might need to wipe mine down.

 

[Monitor]

This horse wasn't tanned by Shinki tannery. What makes you think your jacket would look any better?

https://postimg.cc/gnjb4HZv] [/url]

 

[RDS]

Can it be the 1st April already ?

 

[zebedee]

It is me. I clean the pits.

 

[RDS]

The best tanneries utilize the urine of the same horse the hide is from in the tanning process.

And that’s where the phrase ‘taking the p-i-s-s’ comes from !

 

[Alfredodelavega]

Hence the famous expression: "if you don't have shinki, you haven't understood anything"

 

[Bfd70]

Hello fellow loungers,

I recently purchased a made in Japan horsehide leather jacket. The product is described as being vegetable tanned and pit tanned.

However, the manufactuer didn't mention that it was tanned by Shinki.

Do you think the jacket will hold up in the long run?

Maybe just spend a few days reading threads here.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

I've handled a few Shinki jackets and found the leather attractive, but am I right in not trusting its ability to stand up to weather? I don't know why, but I got the feeling that it just wouldn't provide any protection against heavy rain, for example.

And I've seen some comments on TFL lately that seem to verify that.

So actually, is Shinki just a glorified fashion leather? Does it have any real practical value beyond maybe some warmth?

This is a real question. I'm curious if Shinki is so impractical, how did we get to the place where this new guy thinks its the only quality leather there is?

On the other hand, if it is actually quality leather that can stand up to the elements, then I should change my attitude toward it...

 

[codex]

I've handled a few Shinki jackets and found the leather attractive, but am I right in not trusting its ability to stand up to weather? I don't know why, but I got the feeling that it just wouldn't provide any protection against heavy rain, for example.

And I've seen some comments on TFL lately that seem to verify that.

So actually, is Shinki just a glorified fashion leather? Does it have any real practical value beyond maybe some warmth?

This is a real question. I'm curious if Shinki is so impractical, how did we get to the place where this new guy thinks its the only quality leather there is?

On the other hand, if it is actually quality leather that can stand up to the elements, then I should change my attitude toward it...

It depends on the finishing. Shinki is most often either coated with a weak coating that is supposed to wear off to show a teacore, or it is left oiled after being aniline dyed which allows it to soak up water.

 

[Tom71]

I've handled a few Shinki jackets and found the leather attractive, but am I right in not trusting its ability to stand up to weather? I don't know why, but I got the feeling that it just wouldn't provide any protection against heavy rain, for example.

And I've seen some comments on TFL lately that seem to verify that.

So actually, is Shinki just a glorified fashion leather? Does it have any real practical value beyond maybe some warmth?

This is a real question. I'm curious if Shinki is so impractical, how did we get to the place where this new guy thinks its the only quality leather there is?

On the other hand, if it is actually quality leather that can stand up to the elements, then I should change my attitude toward it...

I don´t think you can legitimately call any shinki variant "glorified fashion-leathers".

In terms of "protection against heavy rain", there seems to be a gradual evolution from - say - cotton or linen (no protection at all) to maybe Gore-Tex (protects against pouring rain for a good amount of time).

In such a made-up slide, the shinki leathers I have handled would rank better than suede, split-leather, unfinished hides but worse than chrome-tanned and coated hides (thnk CXL FQHH or the hides LW´s use).

As @codex said, you can pretty much seal the outer part of the hide with a topcoat to enhance rain-protection, but that´s more about the finish than about tannage.

I do happily trust my shinki jackets in a drizzle or light rain, but would not expose any of them deliberately to heavy rain. But then, why would I? The evolution from leather to artificial fabrics (or before that waxed cotton) was due to the realization that leather per its nature doesn´t provide very good protection against any elements.

 

[cbez]

Every non shinki jacket i bought has actually dissolved in the box before i opened it. only shinki can handle the stress of shipping