German & Austrian Hutmachers

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Dobesch Wien "Novo", 58 cm, possibly mid to late 1950s. Dobesch Wien are not so common and are of high quality so I was very much happy to find this Homburg. The Brown (shade very much changes based on light source) Felt has a well executed Finish and is pliable but i kept the small front Side Dents. This is how Homburgs were often worn in Germany and Austria. Its wider Brim and taller Crown makes it really stand out. The seller was from Germany but there is no store / shop marks so possibly purchased at one of Dobesch's retail outlets in Vienna.

Open Crown

I love that one, Steve: Congrats on such a beautiful and rare find!

 

[mayserwegener]

Hello Matt, Thanks! It was a surprise find.

 

[steur]

Dobesch Wien "Novo", 58 cm, possibly mid to late 1950s. Dobesch Wien are not so common and are of high quality so I was very much happy to find this Homburg. The Brown (shade very much changes based on light source) Felt has a well executed Finish and is pliable but i kept the small front Side Dents. This is how Homburgs were often worn in Germany and Austria. Its wider Brim and taller Crown makes it really stand out. The seller was from Germany but there is no store / shop marks so possibly purchased at one of Dobesch's retail outlets in Vienna.

Open Crown

You've added two beauties to the collection, Steve. Both the Wilke bowler and this Dobesch are fantastic hats.

 

[mayserwegener]

J. Hückel´s Söhne "Plume", 59 cm, possibly mid to late 1930s. The weight of the entire hat is 58 grams so about 2 ounces! The Off White Smooth Finish Felt is tissue like so super pliable, and there are triangular Vents on the sides of the taller Crown . It has a Thin Ribbon with a sharp looking Bow design. The Sweat Band is made of Fabric, possibly to reduce weight. I have only seen this once before from JHS and it was a Women's Stiff Felt. Whoever owned this Soft Felt wore it hard in the Summer because there are sweat issues to the Sweatband and Band / Bow. This is definitely one of my better + interesting recent finds.

The Paper Label doesn't have JHS but based on the numbers it's definitely JHS.

Open Crown

Natural Light

58 Grams ~ 2.0 Ounces

C. Louis Weber Hannover Geogr.str 17 (1937)

Always Impeccably Dressed

Ladies' and Men's Fashion, Furs, uniforms

by C. Louis Weber, The House of Fine Clothing, Hanover 1862-1937, Georgstr. 17

 

[mayserwegener]

You've added two beauties to the collection, Steve. Both the Wilke bowler and this Dobesch are fantastic hats.

Stefan, Thank you!

 

[jeffgarf]

J. Hückel´s Söhne "Plume", 59 cm, possibly mid to late 1930s. The weight of the entire hat is 58 grams so about 2 ounces! The Off White Smooth Finish Felt is tissue like so super pliable, and there are triangular Vents on the sides of the taller Crown . It has a Thin Ribbon with a sharp looking Bow design. The Sweat Band is made of Fabric, possibly to reduce weight. I have only seen this once before from JHS and it was a Women's Stiff Felt. Whoever owned this Soft Felt wore it hard in the Summer because there are sweat issues to the Sweatband and Band / Bow. This is definitely one of my better + interesting recent finds.

The Paper Label doesn't have JHS but based on the numbers it's definitely JHS.

Open Crown

Natural Light

58 Grams ~ 2.0 Ounces

C. Louis Weber Hannover Geogr.str 17 (1937)

Always Impeccably Dressed

Ladies' and Men's Fashion, Furs, uniforms

by C. Louis Weber, The House of Fine Clothing, Hanover 1862-1937, Georgstr. 17

How long has the fabric sweatband been used in hats (in place of leather)? I think I'd it as a cost reduction mechanism, but I also see it in my hats for the Jewish market that are meant to be worn daily and for longer periods. I was wondering how far back the practice goes.

 

[jeffgarf]

Another hat purchased from Ukraine that has made it to me in Israel after a 2 1/2 month delay, a Matador brand. All other hats I have seen with the "Exclusiv" and Rein Haar" designation of the sweatband, as shown here are German-made Tyrolean style hats. This one seems to be a camber style fedora, with a great hatband treatment. Rein Haar in German is pure hair, usually a fine felt designation, but if someone said it was wool or a wool blend, I would not be shocked. It is a fine hat and one I'd not encountered before.

 

[Judgmentalist]

Thought this was interesting. What do you guys think?

https://ebay.us/m/4If8Gx

 

[jeffgarf]

Thought this was interesting. What do you guys think?

https://ebay.us/m/4If8Gx

View attachment 787397 View attachment 787398 View attachment 787399 View attachment 787400 View attachment 787401

Not a bad price for a Panama. Certainly a modern one with a good name.

 

[mayserwegener]

How long has the fabric sweatband been used in hats (in place of leather)? I think I'd it as a cost reduction mechanism, but I also see it in my hats for the Jewish market that are meant to be worn daily and for longer periods. I was wondering how far back the practice goes.

Jeff, I am not sure how far Fabric sweatbands go back. I have a JHS Soft Felt and Stiff Felt from the 1930s with Fabric Sweatbands. In the case of the JHS "Plume" Soft Felt (that I recently posted) I believe the use of a Fabric Sweatbands was for reducing weight and also making the hat Rollable.

The JHS "Elastic" Stiff Felt is Women's "Riding Hat" which often have (both Men and Women) Fabric Sweatbands. In this case there is no extra protection to the Crown so not used for protection. Also the Bow is on the Left side vs the Right which is common for Women's hats.

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/6-johann-h%C3%BCckel%C2%B4s-s%C3%B6hne-h%C3%BCckel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/7/#findComment-3075

Soft Felt Smoking Hats often had Fabric Sweatbands but I don't have an example. Same with Soft Felt Tuxedo Hats and of course Collapsible Top Hats.

For current times I believe it's more about wearability (lighter weight, possibly more comfortable. washable) and cost.

 

[jeffgarf]

Jeff, I am not sure how far Fabric sweatbands go back. I have a JHS Soft Felt and Stiff Felt from the 1930s with Fabric Sweatbands. In the case of the JHS "Plume" Soft Felt (that I recently posted) I believe the use of a Fabric Sweatbands was for reducing weight and also making the hat Rollable.

The JHS "Elastic" Stiff Felt is Women's "Riding Hat" which often have (both Men and Women) Fabric Sweatbands. In this case there is no extra protection to the Crown so not used for protection. Also the Bow is on the Left side vs the Right which is common for Women's hats.

http://[URL]https://germanaustrianh...l-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/7/#findComment-3075

[/URL]

Soft Felt Smoking Hats often have Fabric Sweatbands but I don't have an example. Same with Soft Felt Tuxedo Hats. And of Collapsible Top Hats.

For current times I believe it's more about wearability (lighter weight, possibly more comfortable. washable) and cost.

I am familiar with the tuxedo hat, as I own two. I think the current times that you mention seems to be true, but the history you provide is quite interesting. Thank you.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thought this was interesting. What do you guys think?

https://ebay.us/m/4If8Gx

View attachment 787397 View attachment 787398 View attachment 787399 View attachment 787400 View attachment 787401

The Panama hat body was Woven in Ecuador (probably sourced from Dorfzaun) and Blocked and Dressed by Mayser (post 2010 in Slovakia). The Brim edge is not woven but trimmed with a Welt which is common with Mayser Straw Hats. It's a good quality weave with Vents.

 

[mayserwegener]

Another hat purchased from Ukraine that has made it to me in Israel after a 2 1/2 month delay, a Matador brand. All other hats I have seen with the "Exclusiv" and Rein Haar" designation of the sweatband, as shown here are German-made Tyrolean style hats. This one seems to be a camber style fedora, with a great hatband treatment. Rein Haar in German is pure hair, usually a fine felt designation, but if someone said it was wool or a wool blend, I would not be shocked. It is a fine hat and one I'd not encountered before.
View attachment 787358 View attachment 787359 View attachment 787360 View attachment 787361

Jeff, Is there a paper label behind the Sweatband? I can't remember who produced or sourced these "Rein Haar" Soft Felts. It's made of Fur Felt and most likely Rabbit. It's possibly 1980s = 1990s. It has a nice Form that looks great worn in Camber / Brim Up style.

 

[jeffgarf]

Jeff, Is there a paper label behind the Sweatband? I can't remember who produced or sourced these "Rein Haar" Soft Felts. It's made of Fur Felt and most likely Rabbit. It's possibly 1980s = 1990s. It has a nice Form that looks great worn in Camber / Brim Up style.

It may have such a label, but the lining is glued so close to the sweatband that I cannot see under it. I am expecting my hatting supplies (along with the rest of our belongings) here in Israel within the next week or 2 and then I will feel more comfortable removing the liner for closer inspection. This is what I can see, for now.

 

[Rmccamey]

Not your typical Panama...much more durable. I've worn mine as a work hat for several years. Bu**etproof!

Thought this was interesting. What do you guys think?

https://ebay.us/m/4If8Gx

View attachment 787397 View attachment 787398 View attachment 787399 View attachment 787400 View attachment 787401

 

[mayserwegener]

It may have such a label, but the lining is glued so close to the sweatband that I cannot see under it. I am expecting my hatting supplies (along with the test of our belongings) here in Israel within the next week or 2 and then I will feel more comfortable removing the liner for closer inspection. This is what I can see, for now. View attachment 787564

Jeff, I would need more than that and I still might not know who made it. It's a latter hat so there could be different sources. I might have one in my Christmas Market Hat inventory but it might not be the same source.

 

[mayserwegener]

I am familiar with the tuxedo hat, as I own two. I think the current times that you mention seems to be true, but the history you provide is quite interesting. Thank you.

Women also wore Tuxedo and Smoking Hats. See below.

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/649-ladies-smoking-tuxedo-costumes-that-feature-mens-like-soft-felt-hats-moderne-welt-jahrgang-7-heft-22-1926/#comment-3117

The JHS "Plume" Soft Felt is different because of the super light weight. There are other examples here of old super lightweight Felt Hats with Fabric Sweatbands.

 

[mayserwegener]

Marke Greif - Vauka (Vatter & Kaltenbach & Co. Frankfurt am Main), "Homburg Opal", 57 cm possibly late 1950s early 1960s. Vauka was a Distributor - Wholesalers that goes back to at least the 1930s. Vauka was a distributor of Rockel Alsfeld Hats in 1930s but based on the components and workmanship it's highly possible that this Homburg Hat was made by Anton Peschel Dinkelsbühl. It has a nice looking lower profile Form and the Black Felt has a fine Smooth Finish. It also has a medium width Band and a Wind Cord. This is my first Marke Greif - Vauka Soft Felt.

Vatter & Kaltenbach & Co., FRANKFURT AM MAIN, TRADEMARK GRIFFIN, Large Stock of Elegant New Wool and Fur Felt Products. Representative and Stockist of Genuine Rockel Hats, SPECIALTY: VELOUR HATS

From: Deutsche Hutmacher Zeitung, Dec. 15, 1936.

Vatter & Kaltenbach & Co., TRADEMARK GRIFFIN, Stand No. 51, Your Supplier of Fine Men's Wool Hats, Frankfurt am Main, Gufleustrasse 47.

From: AUSSTELLUNG UND VERSAMMLUNG, des HERRENHUT-EINZELHANDELS aus Nordrhein-Westfalen am 14. Juni 1950 in der "Gruga" in Essen/Ruhr (page 17).

 

[steur]

Marke Greif - Vauka (Vatter & Kaltenbach & Co. Frankfurt am Main), "Homburg Opal", 57 cm possibly late 1950s early 1960s. Vauka was a Distributor - Wholesalers that goes back to at least the 1930s. Vauka was a distributor of Rockel Alsfeld Hats in 1930s but based on the components and workmanship it's highly possible that this Homburg Hat was made by Anton Peschel Dinkelsbühl. It has a nice looking lower profile Form and the Black Felt has a fine Smooth Finish. It also has a medium width Band and a Wind Cord. This is my first Marke Greif - Vauka Soft Felt.

Vatter & Kaltenbach & Co., FRANKFURT AM MAIN, TRADEMARK GRIFFIN, Large Stock of Elegant New Wool and Fur Felt Products. Representative and Stockist of Genuine Rockel Hats, SPECIALTY: VELOUR HATS

From: Deutsche Hutmacher Zeitung, Dec. 15, 1936.

Vatter & Kaltenbach & Co., TRADEMARK GRIFFIN, Stand No. 51, Your Supplier of Fine Men's Wool Hats, Frankfurt am Main, Gufleustrasse 47.

From: AUSSTELLUNG UND VERSAMMLUNG, des HERRENHUT-EINZELHANDELS aus Nordrhein-Westfalen am 14. Juni 1950 in der "Gruga" in Essen/Ruhr (page 17).

Cool find, Steve. This brand doesn't show up often; rare as a griffon!

 

[steur]

Echter Mayser Rias fedora in a heather mohair finish. Size 55 with the overwelt brim at 5cm and the crown at 9,5cm at the center dent, which makes it a smallish looking hat. Not going to say no to an Echter Mayser for 1 euro though. It has been sitting on a hat stretcher for a month to get it to my size.