An Appeal to the Yanks Around Here

Yeps said:

Fingers crossed. One of my friends might be making me photocopies/scans of her grandfather's work notebooks. He was a tailor in New York straight off the boat from Naples in the early to middle part of the century, so if I can get these, they ought to provide some very interesting information.

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YES!!!


This would be a wonderful primary source!!!

Marc Chevalier said:

YES!!!


This would be a wonderful primary source!!!

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I will see what I can do. There is no guarantee, but the possibility is there. If I get the copies, it will be after Christmas, when my friend goes home.

I'm sure he was a wonderful tailor. Only the better tailors made it over as they had to have sponsorship/employment prior to their arrival.

I think Marc's excited about that Yeps. Just a bit.

Marc, your collection of clothing has always peaked my curiosity. My favorite spot has always been in the hats section and I have not really ventured out of there. I do however have many suits from the Forties and Fifties and even a few from the Sixties I could post. I am positive that they are of American manufacture. Most likely not bespoke but if they will help in so far as shape and style and details I will lay them out. I did attempt to have a suit made for me with vintage elements I like. I think the tailor learned a lot,I was frustrated in the end.

A the turn of the century many American men yet preferred 16 and even 18 size three-quarter plate watches, which tended to be rather thick. At about the turn-of-the-century many quite thin Swiss watches with "three-finger" bridge movements (often known as "Geneva Caliber") became increasingly common, leading eventually to the production of similarly thin Geneva style movements by the American manufacturers. These thin and often relatively compact (size 14 or 16 at the largest) movements became popular after about 1910, and had pretty well taken over the market by the end of the Great War.

The older, larger sized watches were still commonly worn by middle aged and elderly men until at least the late 1920's. A man who carried such a large, older watch would have doubtless requested a larger watch pocket. When carrying my old size 18 "Bunn Special" I noticed that the standard sized pockets on one of my suits were tight, the watch was difficult to remove and replace, and when in place it caused the pocket to bulge in an unsightly manner.

Subsequent suits were ordered fitted with a larger watch pocket. I sent a battered, empty size 18 case off to RavisTailor for them to measure. Since then all of my watches fit.

Mr. Chevalier, would you mind if I sent copies of the photographs of your 1912 suit off to Ravis? The photos that you have posted are excellent, and show details that I want which are not immediately apparent in any of the old catalog illustrations that I rely on for style cues.

Of course, my interest is primarily in the ready-to-wear suits of the $15.00 class so popular with the lower middle classes of the 'teens and 'twenties, but your high-style suits yet offer important design cues.

Remember, too, that many provincial British gentlemen made a point of carrying their father's or grandfather's old "turnip", one of those old full-plate watches with pair cases, which watches were awfully stout. British watch makers of the better class tended to be quite conservative, and the slim (and often fragile) models popular on the continent were not too common on the Home Island. Note, too that as long as most men carried pocket watches the carrying of one of the very thin continental models tended to brand one as a "sport", someone not entirely wholesome.

A la tres estimable M. Marc Chevalier: I have been noticeable mostly by my absence on the FL over the past year; my father's last illness and death (God rest his soul!) has taken away almost all of my "free" time and therefore most of my appearance here. A week or two before his death I was, in fact, in LA, and hoped I might meet you—but it was not to be. I must confess, I did speak about you to several other FL members I was lucky enough to meet "in the flesh".

Which brings both you and I to the present. I have been involved in various sorts of living history for some 35 years now; I've seen it all, pretty much. A good deal of what one sees, sadly, is the burning out of the very best individuals: they come to the field with an ardent and sincere interest, and leave it grim and tart because they were unsuccessful in converting the world to their level of enthusiasm. Forgive me for speaking plainly, Marc: but you fit this paradigm exactly.

I—and so many others, as is patent from a quick scan of threads in this forum—have learned a huge amont about traditional male attire from you, Marc; and we should all be glad that we live when we do: I remember a time (perhaps you do, as well) when you had to live within physical distance of a collector of your acumen to gain the benefit of their experience and intuition. By dint of the internet, individuals (like myself, living 3000 miles away from you) have benefited by the path you have chosen to pursue. For this fact I am truly and deeply grateful—and I KNOW that I am not alone in feeling that way.

Marc: forgive me the hubris of lecturing you, but trust me: the wisdom I pass on is very dearly purchased; I can inform you of the details at your pleasure, should you wish. YOU WILL NEVER MAKE THE WORLD FOLLOW YOU IN YOUR PASSION. Most people are stupid or happy in their ignorance...and I'm only talking about that tiny fraction that is even INTERESTED in the stuff that interests us. You must continue doing what you are doing only because you think it is worth doing....for your own pleasure and satisfaction.

The good stuff starts NOW: there were ALWAYS be a few (a very few!) folks who find you, appreciate what you know, and build their own appreciation of the period on what you have laid out for them. Twas ever thus; but the chance of finding a worthy individual to mentor was a much dicier proposition in the past, because you could be sitting with your world-class collection of.....well, "whatever"...in Podunk, and noone would ever know.

Please, Marc: reconsider the value that you are providing not only to this generation, but to all who follow in the time capsule of the cyberverse. If you are only doing what you do to find kindred and equal spirits....you are doomed to disappointment, because you are one of the few, and the precious. If you meet two or three people in your lifetime who are interested in what you are interested in and know and consider it at your level....you will be WELL ahead of the percentages. I know I'm not alone in hoping that you will find satisfaction and validation in continuing to document what you knwo for the rest of us, now and for all those who come afterwards.

I wish I might have had the chance to meet you and say the above face-to-face last July...but this will have to do. I hope you have been enjoying the NRA ties.

Sincerely your admirer and debtor
"Skeet"

Not bespoke, but noteworthy.... the elusive Macintosh....

Resorte, I once sold a Macintosh tuxedo with the exact same cut.

Marc Chevalier said:

Resorte, I once sold a Macintosh tuxedo with the exact same cut.

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This sat at La Rosa in SF for years and I was always bummed that it never fit me. Since I lost a little weight this past year, I tried the jacket on again earlier this month. I got it to button; albeit very snugly!

Thank you for posting this great thread. It's really great to see these details and to learn about differences between new and old world. It is also great to learn why some suits are worth more than others and by that I mean about prestige of manufacturers and tailors. I guess that lack of historical knowledge is why many vintage enthusiast keep wondering prices of some suits.

And then my contribution:
I have finnish cutter's guide from 1929 and it includes two different ways to cut trousers, regular way (high back) and american way (lower back and beltloops).

How about western suits, that is real Americana and original tailoring style.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?60321-The-Thread-to-Display-1950s-Suits&p=1382108&viewfull=1#post1382108

When these were first made?