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A-2 Jacket 1756 "Unknown Maker" in Horween Vermont from Aeroleather UK

DrANeurosurgery

New in Town
Messages
4
Just got this from Aero Leather via their "ready-to-wear" selection.

This is my first A2 jacket & I am happy to get one in Horween Vermont which is not a regular offering from Aeroleather. In fact it seems not be a widely used jacket leather nowadays and I had to search for old posts to learn about the leather.

The jacket smells super nice which is characteristic of a veg tanned leather. I choose this leather as I am hoping to get a jacket with maximal patina potential.

I would love to know more about the leather if anyone has more to share about how it ages and how to maintain it.

What surprises me though is how "irregular" the leather is. There are light & dark spots throughout the jacket & i am wondering if this is what I should expect from Horween Vermont & whether those would even out with age & wear.

Many thanks!
 

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DrANeurosurgery

New in Town
Messages
4
No, the dark spots look horrible and should not be part of any kind of quality leather.
oh... thanks for the reply

maybe I should email Aeroleather to see what they have to say about this then :(

this is my first jacket & I thought Aeroleather UK & Horween are pretty reputable companies.
 

Will Zach

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,469
Location
SoFlo
oh... thanks for the reply

maybe I should email Aeroleather to see what they have to say about this then :(

this is my first jacket & I thought Aeroleather UK & Horween are pretty reputable companies.
They are reputable, but things do get through. You can hold off contacting them until more members here chime in, but I think these dark smudges are not natural leather marks and I would be returning the jacket tbh.
 

Canuck Panda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,184
Vermont is pigment finish. (Not transparent)

What your jacket looks like is a semi aniline version of a cross between Vermont and Pinnacle. It could be from a trial batch / sample run.

The black spots are actually natural. It is the tanning reacting with air, or just natural oxidation. This is the thing of using full veg tan leather and do some form of aniline dye, especially in a lighter color. It is much safer to pigment dye it so it covers these natural oxidization markings. Most very clean veg tan leather on market today are actually pre-treated with the chestnut synthetic base (wet white) before being dumped back into the veg tanning pits. The synthetic prevents the oxidation from happening, and also increase the heat tolerance. And is safe for environment. They would still market it under veg tan because it technically has no chrome salt, even though the chestnut extracts has been synthesized, for a good reason.

I have leathers like this from Horween. I eventually redye it with Angelus myself, which is a water based acrylic pigment dye. It covers all the markings and also pops the grain.

If the natural markings are pointed out on the sale page I see no issue here except they named it differently. You don't need to do anything about it but wear it. I only re-dyed mine because I wanted a different color.

This is what Horween Vermont should look like, pigment top, veg tan base:
(The jacket below the leather is not Vermont but Badalassi I was trying to find a matching color leather)
IMG_9206.JPG


I have oxidized veg tan Horweens FQHH I redyed them with Angelus:
Before, see the black spots like yours.
Horween Wilding 01.PNG

after (navy angelus on top of that veg tan leather on top) I cut it with some water like Navetsea, so it looks worn in and not brand new. All the grains pops, but the black markings are covered by the pigment dye. I also washed the fur collar so the hair curled, for that extra rustic look. This jacket is not made by Aero but Johnson, they don't do hand warmers, and then redyed by me...
JL M-LEI Navy open.JPG
 

DrANeurosurgery

New in Town
Messages
4
Vermont is pigment finish. (Not transparent)

What your jacket looks like is a semi aniline version of a cross between Vermont and Pinnacle. It could be from a trial batch / sample run.

The black spots are actually natural. It is the tanning reacting with air, or just natural oxidation. This is the thing of using full veg tan leather and do some form of aniline dye, especially in a lighter color. It is much safer to pigment dye it so it covers these natural oxidization markings. Most very clean veg tan leather on market today are actually pre-treated with the chestnut synthetic base (wet white) before being dumped back into the veg tanning pits. The synthetic prevents the oxidation from happening, and also increase the heat tolerance. And is safe for environment. They would still market it under veg tan because it technically has no chrome salt, even though the chestnut extracts has been synthesized, for a good reason.

I have leathers like this from Horween. I eventually redye it with Angelus myself, which is a water based acrylic pigment dye. It covers all the markings and also pops the grain.

If the natural markings are pointed out on the sale page I see no issue here except they named it differently. You don't need to do anything about it but wear it. I only re-dyed mine because I wanted a different color.

This is what Horween Vermont should look like, pigment top, veg tan base:
(The jacket below the leather is not Vermont but Badalassi I was trying to find a matching color leather)
View attachment 554571

I have oxidized veg tan Horweens FQHH I redyed them with Angelus:
Before, see the black spots like yours.
View attachment 554573
after (navy angelus on top of that veg tan leather on top) I cut it with some water like Navetsea, so it looks worn in and not brand new. All the grains pops, but the black markings are covered by the pigment dye. I also washed the fur collar so the hair curled, for that extra rustic look. This jacket is not made by Aero but Johnson, they don't do hand warmers, and then redyed by me...
View attachment 554574
Thanks for the detailed sharing!

Its reasurring to know that these are natural markings on the leather.

I will keep the jacket & wear it hard to see what kind of patina it will develop!
 

Hide'n'seek

One of the Regulars
Messages
262
Location
Scotland
This A2 is certainly made from Horween Vermont Espresso , ( sorry @Canuck Panda but you are mistaken) . We experimented with using it about 8 years ago and whilst it was a lovely leather it was very heavily ,marked with natural markings , some of you may recall our "Black Maine " horse ( this was the very same Vermont Espresso) , we made some jackets where we made a feature of the natural maine marks either down center back or in one case down both sleeves.
Whilst some of these marks were beautiful and some people really appreciated it's natural appearance, may folk as above were concerned or deemed it bad quality , not everyone understands full grain aniline finish. When selling remotely online and without customers pre seeing the skins it is too much risk to just send a jacket out hoping the customer understands natural markings.

To the OP @DrANeurosurgery please be assured that these marks are simply naturally occurring markings. Had this been an original A2 issued during the war , jackets had far worse marks, and a pilot would not think twice about "returning it" to the quarter master because he din't like the gaining etc...

@Will Zach there is nothing wrong with the quality of the leather. This jacket was also not a made to order, it was from our ready to wear section with photos of the jacket
 

DrANeurosurgery

New in Town
Messages
4
This A2 is certainly made from Horween Vermont Espresso , ( sorry @Canuck Panda but you are mistaken) . We experimented with using it about 8 years ago and whilst it was a lovely leather it was very heavily ,marked with natural markings , some of you may recall our "Black Maine " horse ( this was the very same Vermont Espresso) , we made some jackets where we made a feature of the natural maine marks either down center back or in one case down both sleeves.
Whilst some of these marks were beautiful and some people really appreciated it's natural appearance, may folk as above were concerned or deemed it bad quality , not everyone understands full grain aniline finish. When selling remotely online and without customers pre seeing the skins it is too much risk to just send a jacket out hoping the customer understands natural markings.

To the OP @DrANeurosurgery please be assured that these marks are simply naturally occurring markings. Had this been an original A2 issued during the war , jackets had far worse marks, and a pilot would not think twice about "returning it" to the quarter master because he din't like the gaining etc...

@Will Zach there is nothing wrong with the quality of the leather. This jacket was also not a made to order, it was from our ready to wear section with photos of the jacket

Thanks for the reply! I appreciate the characters of this jacket and the fact that it's not made from a regularly available leather.

It's nice to be able to get a brand new jacket with a "vintage" look. I also appreciate the quick email response & fast shipping from Aero. I already am thinking about getting a custom jacket next time from you guys ;)
 

Will Zach

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,469
Location
SoFlo
This A2 is certainly made from Horween Vermont Espresso , ( sorry @Canuck Panda but you are mistaken) . We experimented with using it about 8 years ago and whilst it was a lovely leather it was very heavily ,marked with natural markings , some of you may recall our "Black Maine " horse ( this was the very same Vermont Espresso) , we made some jackets where we made a feature of the natural maine marks either down center back or in one case down both sleeves.
Whilst some of these marks were beautiful and some people really appreciated it's natural appearance, may folk as above were concerned or deemed it bad quality , not everyone understands full grain aniline finish. When selling remotely online and without customers pre seeing the skins it is too much risk to just send a jacket out hoping the customer understands natural markings.

To the OP @DrANeurosurgery please be assured that these marks are simply naturally occurring markings. Had this been an original A2 issued during the war , jackets had far worse marks, and a pilot would not think twice about "returning it" to the quarter master because he din't like the gaining etc...

@Will Zach there is nothing wrong with the quality of the leather. This jacket was also not a made to order, it was from our ready to wear section with photos of the jacket
This particular hide is not my cup of tea but really appreciate explanation, @Hide'n'seek. You learn something every day.
 

Canuck Panda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,184
Horween Tannage.jpg


The Vermont we can get in North America is different than the Vermont you can get in UK. The NA version is both cementable and not aniline finished. Chips or fries, same potato.

But black marks are natural. Not matter what the marketing name is called. A lot of black horsehide leather also have these black marks, they just don't show because the leather has been dyed black. People would just think they are interesting graining of some sorts.
 

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