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A gifted Vintage Stetson hat

The Lost Cowboy

One Too Many
Messages
1,450
Location
Northern Alabama
Every hat pictured in all Miller/ Stockman catalogs since western hats were manufactured and sold have had a specific name given to it. Whether it's a Miller, Stetson, or whatever, they all had names associated to each specific one…I find it hard to believe that Stetson would produce such a hat and not designate a name for it. I don't agree with your analogy.

But did Stetson give the hats the names or did retailers like Miller/Stockman give them the names? Because the names in the Miller/Stockman catalogues are reused across multiple hat makers for hats with the same characteristics.

For example, here is one page of a catalogue where a Stetson, Dobbs and Miller are all called “Laloo” on the same page - and plenty of other examples abound. I find it hard to believe that every maker called their hat the same name.

IMG_1950.jpeg


I’m sure my question has been answered elsewhere on the Lounge and I intend to spend more time looking for it, but I suspect that you are determined to find names for hats that retailers named - the makers did not name them. If the makers had gone though all the trouble to name each model, why not put the model name on reorder tags instead of duplication and block numbers?

Here is a link to one discussion of this topic on another thread, showing that other Loungers are asking this same question. It also talks about the extreme variability even among models with the same names, often making it very hard to associate one set of characteristics to any name. I’m sure there must be plenty of other discussions, I just haven’t had a chance to look deeply enough yet.

(starting around post 548):
[/URL]
 
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Messages
11,217
Location
Alabama
and it's dated 1957

know it's a 1957 date
How do you know? I see that you say so because someone has the hat listed as such but provide nothing else to date the hat. My apologies if I missed it. And you’re dismissive of the eBay seller who lists the hat as a 60’s model. Curious as to what you know that they don’t.

These hats have turned up on sites over the years and always caught my attention with the RD designation. I’ve always associated the RD designation with a dress weight felt and the only western I’ve seen it used on is the OR. That hat is neither. The red liner is something I’ve only seen used in very early hats or end of the run Stetsons where this one seems to sit. Just a feeling.

I’ve read through this thread and if anyone has made you feel “less”, that’s on you. You can believe me because I’m an expert in such matters. Needs no further discussion.

Your insistence that this hat must have a known model name is a waste of time. Stetson was big on quality designations. Hat model names, not so much. Been that way a long time.

Four Stetson No. 1 Quality hats dating from the early 1900’s—1958. No model name. No point in going through the 3X’s, 4,5 or 7X CB’s.

1716384713781.jpeg
 

gilligan

One of the Regulars
Messages
173
Location
harrisburg, PA
But did Stetson give the hats the names or did retailers like Miller-Stockman give them the names? Because the names in the Miller/Stockman catalogues are reused across multiple hat makers for hats with the same characteristics.

For example, here is one page of a catalogue where a Stetson, Dobbs and Miller are all called “Laloo” on the same page - and plenty of other examples abound. I find it hard to believe that every maker called their hat the same name.

View attachment 615698

I’m sure my question has been answered elsewhere on the Lounge and I intend to spend more time looking for it, but I suspect that you are determined to find names for hats that retailers named - the makers did not name them. If the makers had gone though all the trouble to name each model, why not put the model name on reorder tags instead of duplication and block numbers?

Here is a link to one discussion of this topic on another thread, showing that other Loungers are asking this same question. It also talks about the extreme variability even among models with the same names, often making it very hard to associate one set of characteristics to any model. I’m sure there must be plenty of other discussions, I just haven’t had a chance to look deeply enough yet.

(starting around post 548:)
[/URL][/URL]
I really appreciate that and that would make sense.
How do you know? I see that you say so because someone has the hat listed as such but provide nothing else to date the hat. My apologies if I missed it. And you’re dismissive of the eBay seller who lists the hat as a 60’s model. Curious as to what you know that they don’t.

These hats have turned up on sites over the years and always caught my attention with the RD designation. I’ve always associated the RD designation with a dress weight felt and the only western I’ve seen it used on is the OR. That hat is neither. The red liner is something I’ve only seen used in very early hats or end of the run Stetsons where this one seems to sit. Just a feeling.

I’ve read through this thread and if anyone has made you feel “less”, that’s on you. You can believe me because I’m an expert in such matters. Needs no further discussion.

Your insistence that this hat must have a known model name is a waste of time. Stetson was big on quality designations. Hat model names, not so much. Been that way a long time.

Four Stetson No. 1 Quality hats dating from the early 1900’s—1958. No model name. No point in going through the 3X’s, 4,5 or 7X CB’s.

View attachment 615708
I know the hat I'm buying is dated 1957 because the man I'm buying it from purchased it in 1957. I didn't mention the date quoted by the seller as being incorrect because, one, I overlooked it and two, I've seen another one of this hat that sold at auction, dated as in the 1950s. And if you notice the sellers post he also has it listed as the time period in the 1940s. So, this is why I didn't acknowledge his dating of the hat to be correct. And whether you're an expert in such matters, I never said it made me feel less. I simply stated that there is a right way and a wrong way to answer someone's question. Is it condescending? Absolutely. You and I both know who the moderator is, I'm referring to. He's had this attitude for some time. Am I the only one who thinks this? No.
 
Messages
19,250
Location
Funkytown, USA
I really appreciate that and that would make sense.

I know the hat I'm buying is dated 1957 because the man I'm buying it from purchased it in 1957. I didn't mention the date quoted by the seller as being incorrect because, one, I overlooked it and two, I've seen another one of this hat that sold at auction, dated as in the 1950s. And if you notice the sellers post he also has it listed as the time period in the 1940s. So, this is why I didn't acknowledge his dating of the hat to be correct. And whether you're an expert in such matters, I never said it made me feel less. I simply stated that there is a right way and a wrong way to answer someone's question. Is it condescending? Absolutely. You and I both know who the moderator is, I'm referring to. He's had this attitude for some time. Am I the only one who thinks this? No.


I am not a moderator. Those are called Bartenders and they are clearly designated beneath their user name.



You have peppered one thread with questions regarding this hat, then started a new thread asking the same questions. This is not the first time you've done this. Many here, including me, have humored you and tried to point you in a direction to find your own way. This is how the rest of us have familiarized ourselves with the hat world.



If you have truly familiarized yourself with the site, you would know there is no likely answer to your question.

Most of us have dozens of hats by many manufacturers and if 15% have a model name attached to them, I'd be gobsmacked.

Determining model names, years of manufacture, felt content, etc. are a crapshoot and even the most knowledgeable here will only give you an educated guess.

The flat brim could have been modified,

Your seller could be wrong about the date,

The eBay seller and your seller can both be correct as the same type of hat could have been made for more than one year,

The hat could have been cleaned and reblocked,

The ribbon could have been replaced,

The red liner could have been chosen by Stetson at random or the original owner could have special ordered it that way,

The entire hat could have been custom ordered, as Stetson seems to have offered such a service at one time.

Buy the hat, wear the hat, enjoy the hat. That’s all any of us can do. The rest is gravy.
 

AbbaDatDeHat

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,696
I have used the resource here, in fact I've used all the resources here to try and find out the specific model name for this particular hat. Every hat pictured in all Miller/ Stockman catalogs since western hats were manufactured and sold have had a specific name given to it. Whether it's a Miller, Stetson, or whatever, they all had names associated to each specific one. If the knowledge is so extensive on this forum then someone who is an expert in Stetsons should be able to identify if this hat had a name. I find it hard to believe that Stetson would produce such a hat and not designate a name for it. I don't agree with your analogy.
No offense G but if you’ve used all resources here then you have realized one absolute thing about Stetson is that they never named every hat!
Never…they did all sorts of marketing ploys.
Doubt they considered Lounge hat people trying to make sense of it either.
The question of what model name a Stetson is has been asked and answered throughout the Lounge resources since early on.
Look again if you don’t believe it.
Try the Open Road thread for starters. Is it branded, is it an Ope Road if not branded? Asked and answered. Then try the Open Roadish thread.
If it isn’t sweatband branded or doesn’t have an inside tag model name then it’s just a Stetson. Call it whatever you want.
B
Ps: nice hat you have coming. Would like to see it detailed once you get it in hand. Till then…it’s a Stetson.
 

jlee562

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,072
Location
San Francisco, CA
If the knowledge is so extensive on this forum then someone who is an expert in Stetsons should be able to identify if this hat had a name. I find it hard to believe that Stetson would produce such a hat and not designate a name for it. I don't agree with your analogy.

There is a limit to what we can know. It's simply impossible to curate a historic list of hat names for every model Stetson ever produced. If you'd like to prove me wrong however, the forum would greatly appreciate your efforts.

If you can't find it in the catalog pages listed here, why are you so certain someone here must know? We're not hiding a magic decoder ring offline. The whole point of the forum is to have a place for the collective knowledge to reside online. If someone were to take the time to try and answer your question, they'd be searching through the same images. So in essence, you're asking us to do the leg work for you.
 

gilligan

One of the Regulars
Messages
173
Location
harrisburg, PA
There is a limit to what we can know. It's simply impossible to curate a historic list of hat names for every model Stetson ever produced. If you'd like to prove me wrong however, the forum would greatly appreciate your efforts.

If you can't find it in the catalog pages listed here, why are you so certain someone here must know? We're not hiding a magic decoder ring offline. The whole point of the forum is to have a place for the collective knowledge to reside online. If someone were to take the time to try and answer your question, they'd be searching through the same images. So in essence, you're asking us to do the leg work for you.
If going on this site to ask a question about a particular hat or whatever and someone on here replies and says, "I know what that is and here's the information on it". Well if that's what you consider doing the leg work for me, then sure why not. And I thank you.
 

gilligan

One of the Regulars
Messages
173
Location
harrisburg, PA
No offense G but if you’ve used all resources here then you have realized one absolute thing about Stetson is that they never named every hat!
Never…they did all sorts of marketing ploys.
Doubt they considered Lounge hat people trying to make sense of it either.
The question of what model name a Stetson is has been asked and answered throughout the Lounge resources since early on.
Look again if you don’t believe it.
Try the Open Road thread for starters. Is it branded, is it an Ope Road if not branded? Asked and answered. Then try the Open Roadish thread.
If it isn’t sweatband branded or doesn’t have an inside tag model name then it’s just a Stetson. Call it whatever you want.
B
Ps: nice hat you have coming. Would like to see it detailed once you get it in hand. Till then…it’s a Stetson.
I appreciate your response and it makes sense and I want to thank you for that. Please don't take my postings as being rude, but it's a certain member that has always been abrupt and sarcastic whenever I post. Whether it's a question or a picture of a particular hat, he's always condescending with his comments. If let's say it's a question about a Stetson or any hat manufacturer, I'll post it in that particular forum. But this member will always reply that's not where the posting goes or he's tired of me posting hats just to show what hat I bought. After a while, this gets a little old and it's at the point that I really don't want to ask any questions for fear that this member is quick to reprimand me. I called him a moderator because I thought he was as he's always quick to correct me. I find this forum confusing to navigate and trying to know what subject is to go where. The last thing I need is this member being quick to jump in with a bad attitude. So, please don't take it personal as I find most if not all the members to be a decent group of people. But there's always that one that can ruin it for others. I would love to post pics of the hat when I receive it, but my fear is, I'll be reprimanded if it's not posted correctly.
 

The Lost Cowboy

One Too Many
Messages
1,450
Location
Northern Alabama
Good to know I might have a Laloo shaped head! :)
Lol - try that on your next custom order. “I’d like a Whippet clone in brown size 7-1/8 laloo.”

The word “shape”’ was the word used on the thread I posted to talk about the origins of some of the hat names in the Miller/Stockman catalogues. I took it to mean crown block, height and bash along with brim size and flange, etc.
 
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jlee562

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,072
Location
San Francisco, CA
If going on this site to ask a question about a particular hat or whatever and someone on here replies and says, "I know what that is and here's the information on it". Well if that's what you consider doing the leg work for me, then sure why not. And I thank you.

You asked, nobody knows.

You keep asking, who do you expect is going to research it for you?
 

gilligan

One of the Regulars
Messages
173
Location
harrisburg, PA
You asked, nobody knows.

You keep asking, who do you expect is going to research it for you?
If you would read my question, I'm just making a general point and not asking again. What I said was, if someone went on this forum and posted about a particular hat, jacket, or whatever, and another member so happened to see it and would say; " That's a so and so made in year whatever". That would be fine. I'm not asking anyone to research it. I've written several history books , so I know what research is and I'm quite capable of doing it myself. I don't need anyone thinking I need them to research anything for me. Bottom line.
 

jlee562

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,072
Location
San Francisco, CA
If you would read my question, I'm just making a general point and not asking again. What I said was, if someone went on this forum and posted about a particular hat, jacket, or whatever, and another member so happened to see it and would say; " That's a so and so made in year whatever". That would be fine. I'm not asking anyone to research it. I've written several history books , so I know what research is and I'm quite capable of doing it myself. I don't need anyone thinking I need them to research anything for me. Bottom line.

Except I was not making a general point, I was addressing your posts. Yes, that would be fine if someone did that. But that's not what you did. You keep asking about a particular hat - escalating to hijacking someone else's thread - and keep getting told that nobody knows anything about it. When I get a new vintage hat, I don't post to ask if anybody knows anything about it. I just look through the resources here myself. So when you keep posting the same question, yes, that will read as you asking us to do the leg work for you.
 

gilligan

One of the Regulars
Messages
173
Location
harrisburg, PA
Except I was not making a general point, I was addressing your posts. Yes, that would be fine if someone did that. But that's not what you did. You keep asking about a particular hat - escalating to hijacking someone else's thread - and keep getting told that nobody knows anything about it. When I get a new vintage hat, I don't post to ask if anybody knows anything about it. I just look through the resources here myself. So when you keep posting the same question, yes, that will read as you asking us to do the leg work for you.
First of all, you are trying to make a point. Secondly, what you call "hijacking someone else's thread" is about as absurd as you can get. I was told by another member to post it on the "ask a question" forum and also the "Stetson" forum. And third, maybe you don't post pics of your hats whether it's to get information or to show it off, but a whole bunch of others do on here, including me. So, if I'm going to ask a question for someone to point me in the right direction, then that's what I'm going to do.
 
Messages
19,250
Location
Funkytown, USA
First of all, you are trying to make a point. Secondly, what you call "hijacking someone else's thread" is about as absurd as you can get. I was told by another member to post it on the "ask a question" forum and also the "Stetson" forum. And third, maybe you don't post pics of your hats whether it's to get information or to show it off, but a whole bunch of others do on here, including me. So, if I'm going to ask a question for someone to point me in the right direction, then that's what I'm going to do.

This thread was pretty specific to a specific hat. I don't know if I'd use "hijack," as Jerad did, but it's not entirely inappropriate. Pretty much everybody reads AAQGAA, so if you were plowing barren ground there, you weren't going to get much further in a Stetson specialty thread.

This site is extensive, and is THE place to learn about hats, their history, and even esoteric things like how to sew in a sweatband or curl a ribbon.

If somebody doesn't weigh in with an answer right away, then we likely don't know. The best solution is to be educated through this site and do your homework. The first six months or so I spent on this site was dedicated to reading, reading, reading - everything. I think my experience is common here among the serious.

Try this link: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/links-to-hat-threads.112725/

It is not comprehensive, but Rusty (@RBH) has been trying to rebuild it in his spare time. We lost the original during a site server migration a few years ago.

If you are truly interested, read every thread in that list. Once you do that, you will be armed and as dangerous as the rest of us.

Go get 'em, little buddy!
 

gilligan

One of the Regulars
Messages
173
Location
harrisburg, PA
This thread was pretty specific to a specific hat. I don't know if I'd use "hijack," as Jerad did, but it's not entirely inappropriate. Pretty much everybody reads AAQGAA, so if you were plowing barren ground there, you weren't going to get much further in a Stetson specialty thread.

This site is extensive, and is THE place to learn about hats, their history, and even esoteric things like how to sew in a sweatband or curl a ribbon.

If somebody doesn't weigh in with an answer right away, then we likely don't know. The best solution is to be educated through this site and do your homework. The first six months or so I spent on this site was dedicated to reading, reading, reading - everything. I think my experience is common here among the serious.

Try this link: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/links-to-hat-threads.112725/

It is not comprehensive, but Rusty (@RBH) has been trying to rebuild it in his spare time. We lost the original during a site server migration a few years ago.

If you are truly interested, read every thread in that list. Once you do that, you will be armed and as dangerous as the rest of us.

Go get 'em, little buddy!
Will do. Thanks for the information.
 

SydneyNas

New in Town
Messages
6
Sounds like this will fit. Dont go stretching a vintage hat by yourself. It can damage them. Please just take this to a WESTERN hat store and get this steamed up. They will get it on your head.

Again, dont go stretching vintage hats. That thing is dry as the sahara and hasnt seen sun wind or humidity for over half a century. to even think about restoring this it needs some time and patience.

FWIW I would just try to rehydrate it before doing annything. Flipping the sweat band out. A good steam and let it dry 3-4 times beore even trying to shape it. A good brush inbetween to reset that nap. If you know what you're doing I'd add the smallest bit of dubbin on my finger and rub it on that sweat band flipped out and leaving it for a day ot two to absorb into it.

Only then would I consider working out what next steps and and only then would I be asking to have a bit or stretching, moulding and finally getting it on my head and sweating into that sweat band to really get it going.
 

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