Better fit

[Robert Conway]

A friend of mine is a tailor and the last person in a long line of people I have been talking to about getting a suit made.

At first they recommended a good off the rack suit, given the cost of a custom piece. They even offered to take me shopping and help me pick one.

I was politely skeptical about finding something off the peg at any cost that would be right and the moment I brought up the subject of 'armholes', they stopped dead in their tracks and said: "Oh, I see. You better come in next week and we'll talk about making you something..."

It was like I had mention the secret password and was 'in the know'.


RC

 

[Baron Kurtz]

who needs a funny handshake, eh?

bk

 

[Matt Deckard]

Well since Armholes have been covered over and over and over again. Let's talk about jacket length.

I get them a little tigher then shrink into them.

Doesn't need to bisect you at a certain point to look right. Their is no set length based on fingers reaching around the edges. I see alot of jackets worn too long nowadays and the trend is leaning back toward the shorter jacket. In the 50's they were long and in the 20's they were shorter. It all has to do with the complete balance of the look
This is something that is defined by your body and the style you are wearing and not a quadratic formula.

Skinnier guys can pull off more looks though sometimes heavier guys go too long in the jacket trying to cover their rear

I wore my jacket longer back then and had the sleaves shorter... covering my rear.

A shorter length and I might go shorter when I get skinnier, though this is probably just right.

Though it hasn't to do with the length of my arms. It's more about covering the rear, though not going too far.

I've been working off my low center of gravity and even though it may look awkward with a longer jacket when I was heavier, it looks better than it would have had I been wearing a shorter jacket.

It's a matter of proportion and gotta take the pictures from a further didtance so i don't look bulbous.

 

[John in Covina]

"around 1850, Americans - blessed with Western technology that allowed its citizens to spread unstoppably across the United States - lived relatively fine lives that let its menfolk reach an average height of 5ft 9in. By contrast, Dutchmen were only able to reach about 5ft 7in.

By the early 20th century the average American man was still about the same height as his predecessor. But the average Dutchman had nearly caught up and was only about half an inch shorter. But in the 20th century Americans were overtaken. The average US male is now about 5ft 10in. The average Dutchman is just over 6ft. More importantly, the latter is continuing his rise in average height. The Americans have long since stopped growing and, according to some measures, may actually be getting smaller. 'In relative terms, Americans are certainly shrinking in comparison with Europeans,' says Komlos. " bk

Somehow I keep worrying that the Dutch are going to be towering over us Americans, and I don't like like the Idea we we are losing the height gap with the Dutch.

Are the polls taking into account the influx of short people from central and South America?

I take a 52 regular in US sizes, the selection is always inadequete in off the rack. One of these days I will be able to afford a custom suit, probably just in time to be buried in it.

 

[herringbonekid]

i'm with Alan Flusser on jacket length: it should be half the distance from top of jacket collar to bottom of trousers. by eye. no exact tape measurements needed.

 

[Matt Deckard]

You haven't seen the rear shots of me in a jacket that is equal distance from cuff to collar bisected.

 

[herringbonekid]

good or bad ?

 

[Robert Conway]

A shorter length and I might go shorter when I get skinnier, though this is probably just right.

I like the length in the second and third picture.

You're looking good Matt and will be a handsome devil when you have reached your goal.

It's a matter of proportion and gotta take the pictures from a further distance so i don't look bulbous.

Try a longer lens (70mm or greater in the standard 35mm format.)

Most wideangle lenses have a considerable amount of barrel distortion, that can pack the pounds on the subject. Wideangle lenses with a flat field are usually expensive. But regardlesss, wides make almost anyone look odd, unless you are built like Twiggy.

I used to shoot this actress/model who was a size 5. Tall, slender, gorgeous. If you shot her with anything shorter than a 75mm, the results would not be very flattering and her face would start to look puffy.


RC

 

[BellyTank]

Behind

It's nice if the jacket is long enough to cover the Gentleman's arse- at least the apex of said protrusion
Not too much longer mind...

If you've seen what I'm talking about avoiding, then your probably in agreement.

Early/mid '60s was a little short in this respect.

B
T

 

[herringbonekid]

-ever wondered how women can get away with such short jackets and men can't ?

-on photography...most people tend to snap from head height too. with a wide angle lense this really diminishes the legs in a shot. ideally the photographer should crouch or use a tripod so they are about at the subject's nipple height.

 

[BellyTank]

High/small armholes and The Holy Trinity...

Go here...

http://www.8savilerow.com/suitspecial.htm

...now move your mouse over the "Shoulder" and read the caption...

Just an interesting little snippet.


B
T

 

[Tomasso]

-ever wondered how women can get away with such short jackets and men can't ?

Women are given much more sartorial latitude which helps to explain why there are so few well dressed women

 

[Tango Yankee]

So THAT'S what the problem is!

I've not had any real interest in suits most of my adult life, primarily because I thought that there was something wrong with the way they fit on me. I couldn't put my finger on it. All I knew was that it seemed to me that suit coats weren't designed to actually be worn while doing normal activities or that I didn't have the build to wear one (tend to be a bit heavy.) When the USAF came out with a new service dress uniform that looked more like an airline pilot's uniform than a military one I found it had the same issues. Saluting in that uniform is difficult and causes the right side of the uniform to pull up and outward.

I often wondered how it was the gentlemen in the old movies I enjoyed were able to actually drive a car or reach for something over their heads without the suit interfering. Well, thanks to this thread, now I know the reasons for both. Not that it helps all that much knowing, since it seems that the choices to avoid the problems of modern suits are limited to either finding vintage suits in the right size and in good condition, or finding a tailor that will make suits in the vintage style. Still, I suppose it gives me something to put on the "someday" list!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Matt Deckard]

Just a little tidbit I thought I'd drop off.

I personally always fasten my three button jackets at the middle, and like them rolled to the second button. [huh]

That's very much the standard nowadays, and as I said, modern lapels are cut in a way which makes it look awkward when a man buttons the top button.

The older suits from the 30's and 40's are just more suited for using your buttons. Another problem I find with modern cuts is that with the low armholes you tend to pull at the chest more when moving making it necessary to unbutton the top when reaching around since you are locking together a box between the top button and the lower part of the armholes. If they are cut right maneuverablity is not a question when buttoning the top button.

Anywho I can button the top button on a three button with a vintage suit or a custom suit where I specify old school armholes. I can't button the top button with a modern three button as the newer cuts restrict my movement.

 

[Feraud]

I've not had any real interest in suits most of my adult life, primarily because I thought that there was something wrong with the way they fit on me. I couldn't put my finger on it. All I knew was that it seemed to me that suit coats weren't designed to actually be worn while doing normal activities or that I didn't have the build to wear one (tend to be a bit heavy.)

That is why you hear the everpresent complaint about wearing a suit- it is "uncomfortable". Most modern suits are uncomfortable and the average guy feels better not wearing one.

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

You can tell I am having issues with a modern-cut suit jacket here.

Is there really nothing at all that can be done by a tailor to try to help this?

What actually have been the results when this has been attempted -- I know you said "bad," but how exactly. I'm a really thin guy so losing a little bit of room in the chest to get a higher armhole wouldn't be out of the question.

 

[Gary Crumrine]

Better Fit ...



Gentlemen,

Suits and tuxedos suitable for ballroom dancing (international or smooth, not latin) are cut with small armholes in order that a gentleman may raise his arms and the back of his suit collar will not elevate. Here is a possibly helpful link ...

http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Directory/Other/view_list.asp?SubCat=101

Cordially,
Gary Crumrine

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Gary is right. In fact, the sleeves on those ballroom dance jackets can be somewhat uncomfortable when the wearer puts his arms down. The sleeves are meant to be worn horizontally, which is where a man's upper arms usually are when he's waltzing.

.

 

[Fletch]

That is why you hear the everpresent complaint about wearing a suit- it is "uncomfortable". Most modern suits are uncomfortable and the average guy feels better not wearing one.

News Flash!...The suit is no longer meant to be a comfortable, all-day, functional garment.
It's meant to be somewhere in that grey area between custom and costume.
They just can't let people know that or no one will buy one.

Armholes are probably the tipping point in the mfg process. They're the difference between handwork by seasoned seamstresses and fusing-and-schmoozing by unskilled labor. They're very likely the only way you can make ready-to-wear these days and still sell it profitably. And everybody in the biz probably knows it.

No wonder, then, that when you mention the "A" word, the salesman looks at you like you just asked him to hold your pet ocelot's leash while you slip downstairs for a Kir Royale.

 

[Jovan]

Go here...

http://www.8savilerow.com/suitspecial.htm

...now move your mouse over the "Shoulder" and read the caption...

Just an interesting little snippet.


B
T

Nothing happens.