Brim down all around

[MDFrench]

Sorry Root - No dice on that one. Is it available on DVD?

 

[Wild Root]

Couldn't find it on DVD, olny on VHS :rage:

Root.

 

[Havana]

I'm not that well informed on the history of the fedora but I was under the impression that the snap brim look came late in the evolution of the fedora. During the early 1900's through the early 1920's, weren't most hats of this type turned down?

 

[Wild Root]

The first types of Fedoras were like Homburgs (correct me if I'm wrong) I have seen them with the brim turned up All around! The brim down all around was a fad of the late 20's and the early to mid 30's.

Root.

 

[jamespowers]

The first types of Fedoras were like Homburgs (correct me if I'm wrong) I have seen them with the brim turned up All around! The brim down all around was a fad of the late 20's and the early to mid 30's.

I would say that the first "fedora type" hats were those worn by country people and mountain men. These were simple soft fur felts that had a rounded crown with a wide brim that kind of sloped down from the crown--down all around. They were comfortable for toiling in the sun. I would imagine that some of these farmers and such would have made variations to the style of the hats to suit their taste but it was still a simple fur felt with a wide brim.
The fedora as we know it grew out of this country hat. In my opinion, the homburg is still a type of fedora. They are generally not as stiff as a bowler and the brim is fairly wide. You can make a homburg out of a fedora body without much trouble. The same is true for the reverse. The homburg has the same type of ribbon around the crown and I have seen homburgs with a fedora bash on them from at least the early 40s.
So Root, I would agree with you about the homburg. It is just a stiff brimmed fedora with the brim up all the way around.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Matt Deckard]

I think the Fedora is more of a city hat than a country hat. With the man in town going from building to building instead of romping and working outdoors all day, the wider brims were needed less and more style concerns were taken into account.

 

[jamespowers]

I think the Fedora is more of a city hat than a country hat. With the man in town going from building to building instead of romping and working outdoors all day, the wider brims were needed less and more style concerns were taken into account.

I agree, but the city hat has its origins in the country. Better put it is a citified country hat. Before that the tricorn was a city hat.

Regards to all,

J

 

[BellyTank]

JP, that Mountain Man hat is (like) a simple Slouch hat, pre-Civil War style-
A Fedora is a Mountain Man gone to town- formed, creased and dented- refined and trimmed. Look at the progression from the basic Slouch to the Cavalry Slouch then shorten the brim, maybe roll the edge, play with the crease or dent...
Towards the end of the 19thC, US Army campaign hats were very close to the Fedora we know.

-BT.

 

[jamespowers]

JP, that Mountain Man hat is (like) a simple Slouch hat, pre-Civil War style-
A Fedora is a Mountain Man gone to town- formed, creased and dented- refined and trimmed. Look at the progression from the basic Slouch to the Cavalry Slouch then shorten the brim, maybe roll the edge, play with the crease or dent...
Towards the end of the 19thC, US Army campaign hats were very close to the Fedora we know.

-BT.

Yep, that is exactly what I was inferring. The slouch hat was the beginning of the fedora. Time and style changes made it what we know today as a fedora. I think it was near today's formation around the 1870s though because Europeans knew it fairly well by then. I don't have my references handy at the moment though.
Many of our hat styles filtered over here through europe---the boater, tophat, bowler and the fedora. The cowboy hat is a uniquely American hat though based on the Mexican Sombrero---except much better looking.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Canadave]

Here are some screengrabs of the "Gable Capra" fedora...the hat begins the film with the entire brim snapped UP all the way around, then midway through, he snaps the front down, then by the third act, it's all down! Enjoy!...

Hey MD, any chance of seeing some screengrabs of the same hat with the brim in the other configurations?

Thanks!

David

 

[MDFrench]

On their way...

 

[MDFrench]

Gable Hat - Brim....UP! Beginning of Film - Drunk

 

[MDFrench]

Gable Hat - Brim...Up and Down! Middle of film - Sober

 

[MDFrench]

BONUS PHOTO - HAT ATTACK!!!! (Gable in booth)

 

[Matt Deckard]

That's the business!

The brim up and drunk look is how I looked this weekend in Vegas, except Clark Gable is taller and looks better all bedraggled.

I think many of those crowns are 6"... So rare today.
Used to be able to buy a tall tall crown and you'd shape it to make it lower or to accentuate your features.

 

[jamespowers]

That's the business!

The brim up and drunk look is how I looked this weekend in Vegas, except Clark Gable is taller and looks better all bedraggled.

Vegas huh? I was wondering about the sighting report that got back to me about you being at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch---bedraggled and all.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Matt Deckard]

I've always liked this one. Brim down, suit collar up, and a mysterious ship.

 

[gandydancer]

If my current information is accurate, the first hat that we would have called a fedora would have been the english country gentleman's bird shooting hat of the 1880's. Which was a trimmed down version of the big game hunters hat of South Africa.

You can thank MD's Quatermain thread for leading me to look off in that direction, but pending some more research (it is very hard to find sources that are not just parroting other sources) I think it is a fairly accurate history line.

The following is a very rough draft of that section:

---

Out of Africa

Copyright Tom Rittenhouse 2005

The fedora the most popular hat in the middle of the 20th century has a couple of, possibly apocryphal, stories of where the name came from, but where did the hat itself come from?

Well, as with a lot of clothing styles it came from a sporting style which in turn came from a working style, the Boer farmers of South Africa's bush hat, a floppy slouch hat, they used for protection from sun and rain. That hat was picked up by South African big game hunters in the mid 1800's as a "Shooting Hat". Carrying a big double barreled rifle in one hand, they soon had pushed the three grooves characteristic of the fedora into the crown of the hat with the other hand while putting it on and taking it off.

English sportsmen going to South Africa to hunt Big Game picked it up from the hunters who were their guides and took it back to England. They had their hatters make them up a slightly more elegant shooting hat for bird hunting. This hat was so useful it soon spread through out Europe. As often happened the country gentleman sometime wore his shooting hat into town where it became popular as casual wear beginning in the 1880's. In WWI a shortage of shellac needed in the manufacture of bowlers and top hats caused the soft fedora to supplant them, and in many places the bowler never really came back into style after the war. From 1918 to 1955 or so the fedora was the most popular style of hat in the United States.

It persisted despite becoming quite unnecessary due to private transportation until manufacturing health and safety regulations in the late 1960's made many manufacturers decide to simply quit the business. Today it periodically stages a come back based upon popular motion pictures, but is mostly worn simply for ornamentation, weather protection, and thus quality, not being a consideration for most wearers.

---

 

[jamespowers]

The following is a very rough draft of that section:
It persisted despite becoming quite unnecessary due to private transportation until manufacturing health and safety regulations in the late 1960's made many manufacturers decide to simply quit the business. Today it periodically stages a come back based upon popular motion pictures, but is mostly worn simply for ornamentation, weather protection, and thus quality, not being a consideration for most wearers.---

Very interesting. This is a new angle that I had not given much thought but it certainly would make sense now that you brought it up. Leave it to the government to regulate an industry out of business. :rage: Thanks for posting that.
I wish I had my resources here. There was a Hungarian poet, in the middle 1800s if I remember correctly, that caused quite a stir by touring the US wearing a soft fur felt hat (crusher/fedora) that you mention. I do not remember his name now darn it! :kick: I will see if I can pull my pictures and reference this evening. I think that was the first hat really looking like the modern fedora in the US of any noteworthiness.

Regards to all,

J

 

[gandydancer]

I would certainly like to see what you come up with JP. One of my problems is that if I can't get the information off the internet I have to get it via interlibrary loan and you know how long that takes, especially when you don't know exactly where it is.