Bumping Question

[Bender]

No Bumping or Cross-posting topics. Bumping is posting to move a thread up on the forum list

Not asking you to report him at this point. Just send me his user name in a PM, and I will look into it.

I'm just looking at all these other beautifully worded and crystal clear rules on that page. And then there's this one, which, if intended to be applied to discussion topics, is also beautifully worded and crystal clear...but when applied to the Classifieds, becomes somewhat vague and incomplete.

Not only is it absent from all the other Classifieds-specific rules threads, the language seems to be referring to discussion topics in the main discussion threads due to its use of the term "topics", rather than "listings" or "classifieds".

If intended to be applied to the discussion topics threads, it makes a lot of sense, because without such a rule, you will often see newer or more impatient users post the same question, for instance, "Should I go for White's or Wesco?" across multiple forums, and bump their threads if they don't get the answer they want quick enough.

Cross-posting isn't a problem in the Classifieds section, and when an influx of new users began bumping too often, the community decided on its own that the reasonable time to wait is a week.

Again, all the other rules in that rules thread are crystal clear with no vagueness, and so is #7... until the rule's purview is stretched to include the Classifieds.

At the end of the day, if that interpretation is added to the rule... either as a new interpretation, or because the rule is indeed singularly vague and has always encompassed the Classifieds, the net result is the same... from a practical standpoint, the way the Classifieds have functioned for decades will now change radically.

And again, because what is most likely a newer member has decided to start reporting people for whatever reason.

I really think this is a disservice to the site and the community. As I said before, if steps were taken to make the community-driven rule about once-a-week bumps official, that's good. But banning bumps altogether is going to have unfortunate consequences for the site traffic. I, for one, don't want to scroll back months to find something, check that it's still available, ask for recent pics if it's an older post, etc etc etc... And if that's the way it will be moving forward, I imagine I and others will kind of organically start seeking out other sites, which means less traffic and less revenue. That's not meant as some sort of "I'll take my ball and go home" whinge, just a reasonable prediction... When something that was easy becomes difficult or unusable, people tend to migrate elsewhere.

 

[Nine Inch Males]

And he is not the only one. Yesterday there was a new member here posting 20 posts like 'very cool' and 'tax is theft' in 15 minutes or so only to get the minimum number of posts and then offload his items for sale.
The thing with the classifieds with both this kind of new members with zero respect for the forum but also with older members who bump their 15 adds every 3 days is getting tiring.
I think the best solution is to split the forum in two: the normal, traditional FL and the classifieds area for which potential users should pay a small fee, maybe 30$ per year or so.

I think charging fees to use this site is completely counterproductive. Most people sell or buy on this site because there are no fees.

 

[puiyc1203]

I'm just looking at all these other beautifully worded and crystal clear rules on that page. And then there's this one, which, if intended to be applied to discussion topics, is also beautifully worded and crystal clear...but when applied to the Classifieds, becomes somewhat vague and incomplete.

Not only is it absent from all the other Classifieds-specific rules threads, the language seems to be referring to discussion topics in the main discussion threads due to its use of the term "topics", rather than "listings" or "classifieds".

If intended to be applied to the discussion topics threads, it makes a lot of sense, because without such a rule, you will often see newer or more impatient users post the same question, for instance, "Should I go for White's or Wesco?" across multiple forums, and bump their threads if they don't get the answer they want quick enough.

Cross-posting isn't a problem in the Classifieds section, and when an influx of new users began bumping too often, the community decided on its own that the reasonable time to wait is a week.

Again, all the other rules in that rules thread are crystal clear with no vagueness, and so is #7... until the rule's purview is stretched to include the Classifieds.

At the end of the day, if that interpretation is added to the rule... either as a new interpretation, or because the rule is indeed singularly vague and has always encompassed the Classifieds, the net result is the same... from a practical standpoint, the way the Classifieds have functioned for decades will now change radically.

And again, because what is most likely a newer member has decided to start reporting people for whatever reason.

I really think this is a disservice to the site and the community. As I said before, if steps were taken to make the community-driven rule about once-a-week bumps official, that's good. But banning bumps altogether is going to have unfortunate consequences for the site traffic. I, for one, don't want to scroll back months to find something, check that it's still available, ask for recent pics if it's an older post, etc etc etc... And if that's the way it will be moving forward, I imagine I and others will kind of organically start seeking out other sites, which means less traffic and less revenue. That's not meant as some sort of "I'll take my ball and go home" whinge, just a reasonable prediction... When something that was easy becomes difficult or unusable, people tend to migrate elsewhere.

good reasoning, but nothing change still. my post got deleted too.
I bump like every 2 week or 3 week still got deleted. with no bump, no one could even find your post, sigh

 

[Harris HTM]

I think charging fees to use this site is completely counterproductive. Most people sell or buy on this site because there are no fees.

If you consider this site a marketplace then yes, it will be indeed counterproductive.
Edit: in my post I meant to keep this forum free of charge, and add fees to the classifieds area.
Edit 2: just checked your last 150 or so posts. They are exclusively items to sell or bumps. So you are right: for people like you who are here only to sell and have nothing to contribute to the forum a charging fee for the classifieds area will be a disaster.

 

[RDS]

good reasoning, but nothing change still. my post got deleted too.
I bump like every 2 week or 3 week still got deleted. with no bump, no one could even find your post, sigh

Either you’re deliberately not telling the whole story or your lack of self-awareness is rather unbelievable, however I suspect the real reason your posts got deleted is because you choose to list or bump 13 or so separate items within the space of just a handful of minutes.

 

[RDS]

I think charging fees to use this site is completely counterproductive. Most people sell or buy on this site because there are no fees.

Care to elaborate exactly why, other than there being a cost to you, and all the others who only use the site to sell, having fees to use the Classifieds part of the FL would be counter productive ?
It’s possible there may be a drop off in clicks or visits to the site however it’s equally possible that some of this revenue might be recouped from the Classifieds fees.
Also, and although I don't know for sure, the Fedora Lounge seemed to be managing just fine before the ever increasing number of Classifieds posts.

 

[Harris HTM]

It’s possible there may be a drop off in clicks or visits to the site

If the classifieds area is free accesible as read-only and fees applicable only to sellers then probably the drop will be minimal. As you said, TFL was doing great the past decades before the 'I am here only to sell' tsunami of the past 2 years or so.

 

[puiyc1203]

Either you’re deliberately not telling the whole story or your lack of self-awareness is rather unbelievable, however I suspect the real reason your posts got deleted is because you choose to list or bump 13 or so separate items within the space of just a handful of minutes.

So i got 13 items that i want to sell is my problem? I did have a post consist of several items which are not leather boots and jackets, so i have the leather items separate and those non leather group together. What's the problem with that?
Even several hours after i bump those posts the front page would be covered by other posts, and i am perfectly okay with that. I just want to let people know that my items are still on sale and active after weeks. So in what sense that my posts offend you? Perhaps even only one post left that with occasional bump would still trigger you

 

[Zoro]

So i got 13 items that i want to sell is my problem? I did have a post consist of several items which are not leather boots and jackets, so i have the leather items separate and those non leather group together. What's the problem with that?
Even several hours after i bump those posts the front page would be covered by other posts, and i am perfectly okay with that. I just want to let people know that my items are still on sale and active after weeks. So in what sense that my posts offend you? Perhaps even only one post left that with occasional bump would still trigger you

The forum page shows 40 threads, 4 of them sticky threads so 36 new posts. Bumping 13 different threads means you're hogging a third of the first page for yourself alone. For additional context, if you bumped all those 13 right now, the oldest bumped thread still in the first page of the Classifieds would had been bumped slightly less than 6 hours ago.

If we're having a discussion on bumping in order to have visibility from as many potential buyers as possible, I would argue that potentially ending up with just 6 hours of it and then have to wait at least one week to bump again and hope for this not to happen again basically kills the whole concept of bumping.

With this in mind, having to consolidate your items in a single thread sounds quite reasonable to me.

 

[puiyc1203]

The forum page shows 40 threads, 4 of them sticky threads so 36 new posts. Bumping 13 different threads means you're hogging a third of the first page for yourself alone. For additional context, if you bumped all those 13 right now, the oldest bumped thread still in the first page of the Classifieds would had been bumped slightly less than 6 hours ago.

If we're having a discussion on bumping in order to have visibility from as many potential buyers as possible, I would argue that potentially ending up with just 6 hours of it and then have to wait at least one week to bump again and hope for this not to happen again basically kills the whole concept of bumping.

With this in mind, having to consolidate your items in a single thread sounds quite reasonable to me.

The oldest bumped thread still that six hours ago because the forum got a problem with bumping now that users are forbidden to bump, so the situation you propose is a false proposition. So for a user want to sell different things but only have one thread, how possible a single thread title would precisely show all of the items name.
Mulholland j100 aklak grizzly attractions freewheelers jeans buco horsehide cowhide teacore boots denim schott langlitz
Altogether in one title line? Don't forget the guys who like to sell are users as well in the forum. Or you mean that i sent posts reviewing for the leather jackets no body else did, at that time i am the contributor, and now only because i want to put some of them to sell, i am destructor to the forum? You guys deliberately put the sellers and the intended buyers on the opposite side only.
When people posting pictures and reviews of their leather jacket, no one ask they should pack all the jackets reviews in one post. And now this you did. Why don't you flush your toilet once a week instead of every time you need, that seems reasonable to you then.

 

[Zoro]

The oldest bumped thread still that six hours ago because the forum got a problem with bumping now that users are forbidden to bump, so the situation you propose is a false proposition.

We do not know that to be a false proposition (I guess you meant solution? I assure you my proposition exists ). Still better than seeing bump every day and people with 400 messages out of which 383 are "bump". What value does that bring to a forum?

So for a user want to sell different things but only have one thread, how possible a single thread title would precisely show all of the items name.
Mulholland j100 aklak grizzly attractions freewheelers jeans buco horsehide cowhide teacore boots denim schott langlitz
Altogether in one title line?

"Several leather jackets in size 40". As a potential buyer, you enter, you check if there's any you may be interested in it and then decide to contact the seller, put it on your watch threads or just move on. Better than seeing 10 consecutive posts on 10 items you've already seen and you're not interested in and/or are not your size for the third time in a month.

Don't forget the guys who like to sell are users as well in the forum. Or you mean that i sent posts reviewing for the leather jackets no body else did, at that time i am the contributor, and now only because i want to put some of them to sell, i am destructor to the forum?
You guys deliberately put the sellers and the intended buyers on the opposite side only.

Mighty offended. Nobody called you destructor of the forum. Sorry you feel that way just because others don't agree with you.

When people posting pictures and reviews of their leather jacket, no one ask they should pack all the jackets reviews in one post. And now this you did. Why don't you flush your toilet once a week instead of every time you need, that seems reasonable to you then.

Reviews and pictures are not the same as Classifieds ads. Nobody is doing a review and putting a new picture of the item every day. And even if they do, a picture is worth more than daily bumps.

Also, this may surprise you, but for better or worse, the purpose of this forum and my toilet are not remotely the same either. Pretty weak comparison in which, once again, flushing my toilet for a daily dump is far more valuable than a daily bump.

 

[puiyc1203]

We do not know that to be a false proposition (I guess you meant solution? I assure you my proposition exists ). Still better than seeing bump every day and people with 400 messages out of which 383 are "bump". What value does that bring to a forum?

"Several leather jackets in size 40". As a potential buyer, you enter, you check if there's any you may be interested in it and then decide to contact the seller, put it on your watch threads or just move on. Better than seeing 10 consecutive posts on 10 items you've already seen and you're not interested in and/or are not your size for the third time in a month.

Mighty offended. Nobody called you destructor of the forum. Sorry you feel that way just because others don't agree with you.

Reviews and pictures are not the same as Classifieds ads. Nobody is doing a review and putting a new picture of the item every day. And even if they do, a picture is worth more than daily bumps.

Also, this may surprise you, but for better or worse, the purpose of this forum and my toilet are not remotely the same either. Pretty weak comparison in which, once again, flushing my toilet for a daily dump is far more valuable than a daily bump.

you dont make a point here man when you cannot clarify your 'proposition'. and please just dont use 'we' or 'others', you are the one jump out here and critizing this and that, this is wrong thats wrong. Its a blessing that you are not the admin, because you would prefer set the rules that favor you disregard of others need.

Let alone from a potential buyers view, from basic logic no one would prefer serveral leather jackets in size 40 than specific name and material. and in what universe anyone told you that a size 40 would give the same cutting and styling of different jackets and brands, thats hilarious. You raised this hilarious example only because you re trying to rebut, there is no practical ground there. its not constructive, man.

Again, reviews are posting in the 'Outerwear and Workwear' not in classified. Regarding the trading activities happened here in the classified, bumping is always a good solution for routine maintenance. The question now dabating, is how to regulate it, but not totally ban or not demonizing bumping. those people willing to bump only because they are more willing to trade and make a deal with price negotiation, otherwise one is elastic whether or not their post is in the main page or page 20.

 

[Zoro]

you dont make a point here man when you cannot clarify your 'proposition'.

What clarification do you need? I think it is quite clear:

My two personal proposals:

1) You are allowed to bump your items in the Classifieds once every week or if you're bumping with a price update of at least 10% (To avoid people bumping just by decreasing by one dollar/euro).

2) If you have three or more active ads, you're forced to consolidate them in a single thread with all you're selling.

These two are to avoid seeing people bumping their stuff everyday or seeing people bumping 15 threads at once of 15 jackets in the same size.

Again, sorry but not sorry to have criticized your willing to bump 13 items at once. I'm not against bumping, but I'm against when it becomes spamming in my eyes, which is where we seem to disagree.

 

[Jonanah]

The only things that ever bothered me are the extremely frequent bumpers and the guys who post 86 listings.

I like the idea of one bump a week, and a consolidated post if you have more than 3 listings.

Yes my thoughts exactly

 

[RDS]

Why is it always the people who talk like this who also have the worst takes lol. You’re actively making the forum worse by bringing in ad hominem attacks, not the new members engaged in reasonable debate.

Evidently someone who’s without a sense of humour.
If you bothered to take just a second to read the message I was replying to you would see that this was merely a light hearted response to the posters rather ‘catty’ remark.
If you need a clue have a look at the first word in their post.

 

[Lukken]

Some of my posts have been deleted for "bumping" but so many posts I see bump their products as well and they are not getting taken down. Can someone please explain this to me?

The overall problem with not being allowed to bump is that your post just goes into the abyss for it never to be seen again. W

Evidently someone who’s without a sense of humour.
If you bothered to take just a second to read the message I was replying to you would see that this was merely a light hearted response to the posters rather ‘catty’ remark.
If you need a clue have a look at the first word in their post.

Meow

 

[RDS]

The overall problem with not being allowed to bump is that your post just goes into the abyss for it never to be seen again. W

Meow

Good to see that despite any differences there maybe there’s hopefully still room for a little levity to lighten the mood somewhat.

 

[Bender]

Everybody needs to calm down. I think I sit right in the middle here- I buy and sell a lot and I also post (not lurker drivel "cool" or whatever, but meaningful posts. Or at least meaningful to me).

I can understand the sentiment that those who only use this site to sell should perhaps take a back seat with regards to negotiating rule changes to the Classified section.

But with respect, if my friends who don't or only rarely use Classifieds really feel that way, then they should probably also sit this one out.

Or...

We can all put aside our outrage for a second and ask ourselves what actually affects our experience on this site.

I think everybody is aware of the rolling brown outs, the issues that pop up... those are site maintenance issues. With healthy traffic and good revenue, we see less of that. If the Classifieds section becomes an unsearchable ghost town, leading to drastically reduced traffic and far less revenue, we see more of that. Way more. The maintenance issues are not handled, they get worse, and eventually, people start leaving the discussion topic forums as well.

To be clear, while we are technically talking about a "rule change", the Classifieds have never operated without bumps. Ever. So we are not talking about keeping them as they are, we are talking about radically changing them.

And lastly... I would love to mention once again that this whole rolling **** show kicked off because a single member, most likely someone brand new, decided to start reporting bumps and trolling everybody.

 

[scotrace]

No bumping threads.