Buyer Beware

[photobyalan]

I know that it's against Lounge policy to link to active eBay items in this forum, but bear with me here.

I came across the following item last week:
auction link

Obviously, this item was not made in the 1940's, as is stated in the listing. I emailed the seller to question him about it. He replied that he was told by the Seattle Antique Hat Shop in 1998 that the hat was made in the 1940's. I replied to him that the store had badly misrepresented the age of the hat, whether intentionally or not, and that the hat was very recent. To date, the listing has not been changed.

There are two problems here. The ebay seller, who has been informed that his listing is in error and who refuses to change it, and this outfit called the Seattle Antique Hat shop which, if they are still in business, appears to be in the business of either incompetence or outright lying. If this store is still extant, they deserve all the derision that can be heaped upon them.

As an aside, the thought of someone wearing this hat with a Zoot Suit is, quite frankly, ridiculous and not just a little pathetic.

 

[John in Covina]

one Adam 12 use caution.

As someone that has had to work with the Public in matters of sold items, i can tell you that there is a fair chance the store did not say it was from the 40's. They may have said it is like a style from the 40's or even something completely different. We are relying on the memory of the seller which may be faulty.

I cannot tell you how many times I was explicit in an explanation or instructions to a member of the public and later got an argument over what it was they "heard" versus what I had said. So let's not convict the shop just yet.

 

[ITG]

FYI per my knowledge I think we can still list auctions here. You may be thinking of the policies over at COW, where you can't post auctions.

 

[feltfan]

Buyer should always beware on eBay!

I always assume the seller is entirely ignorant about what he
or she is selling on eBay. The downside, as you know, is that
it can be tough to get credible info on an item. If I need answers
to questions, I usually take a "is it bigger than a breadbox?"
approach- simple questions I know they can figure out (but
let's not talk about how few sellers on eBay know what the
word "circumference" means).

The upside is that if you know what you are doing, you can
get killer deals. Keep that in mind and pass on dubious sellers.

BTW, I did drop the seller an "FYI" note and I encourage
others to do so as well. It may or may not be taken that way,
but it's a nice thing to do. If the seller comes to his or her
senses on this, it could save both the seller and a possible buyer
a whole lot of strife. I've been through eBay negociations before
and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

[photobyalan]

Feltfan, that's great. Perhaps this seller will listen when multiple voices are calling out.

It has been pointed out to me by PM that it's entirely possible that there is no business called the Seattle Antique Hat Shop. I'm reporting what the seller told me. Of course, if he's dishonest to start with, then inventing a store is a perfectly reasonable action to expect.

I also agree with you that, as a buyer, it's sometimes great to deal with a seller who is ignorant. I got a nice Biltmore fedora for 10 bucks because the seller (who, I assume, saw "genuine leather" stamped on the sweatband) described the hat as "leather" and posted a horrible photo. I took a chance that Biltmore never made any leather fedoras (especially with a grosgrain ribbon!) and was the only bidder.

You're also right about sellers having trouble with "circumference". I saw a listing a couple weeks ago in which someone had asked the buyer to measure the circumference inside the hat. From the description of the measurement the seller gave, he had apparently measured from the bottom of the sweatband, up under the crown, and back down to the sweatband on the other side! Came out to about 16 inches.

 

[Legal Concepts]

FYI per my knowledge I think we can still list auctions here. You may be thinking of the policies over at COW, where you can't post auctions.

COW? .........

 

[ITG]

Club Obi-Wan www.indygear.com's forum on Indiana Jones gear. Alot of members here are from over there.

 

[Matt Deckard]

The austion rule applies to live auctions... I'll allow it in this case.

Usually when you have a live auction it must always be placed in the Classified section.

 

[Absinthe_1900]

Perhaps there should be an alert section in the classified area, to warn others about questionable, or fake items.

 

[varga49]

It's not like I have lot of free time...

Perhaps there should be an alert section in the classified area, to warn others about questionable, or fake items.

...but when I see a mistake in sizing or style or era a write and tell the seller..more often than not I've gotten friendly replies

 

[MattC]

Like everything else, it depends on the person

I've told a few sellers that they have an era wrong or the kind of hat wrong. Some say thanks and ask questions. Others ignore you. Some people want to be as honest as they can. For others, honesty can be an obstacle. What do you do when you see someone selling a nice Stratoliner or Borsalino as a "Dobbs" because that's what the box says--how far do you go to point out the obvious?

 

[Bebop]

I confronted a seller about a %100 beaver Akubra made in the U.S.A. and was told he had made a mistake. I don't know if the listing changed but I think that it comes down to buyer beware. I have contacted others about other items and have been ignored. I always assume that the seller does not know his or her product and that I should do my homework before opening up my wallet. This goes for anything I buy, not just ebay items. Sometimes it works to the buyers advantage and sometimes the seller gets the best of the buyer.

 

[jjunner]

the description remains the same, (made in the forties) but as of yesterday this is in the Q and A section:


Q: This hat looks mighty recent to me. Are you sure it is vintage? jim
Jan-01-06
A: I have been informed that the hat is not from the forties as I was told when purchased. It was probably made in the eighties to look like it was from the forties. I bought it to wear when swing dancing.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

The austion rule applies to live auctions... I'll allow it in this case.

Usually when you have a live auction it must always be placed in the Classified section.

Matt, I posted a new thread before I saw this. See my recent thread, Another caveat emptor.

I was reluctant to post this thread, but also I felt a strong obligation to my fellow Fedora Lounge members, who might be bidding on this attractive hat. I know the Classified section is not heavily read.

In the future, I'll post a topic regarding an active auction in Classified. I suggest that we encourage one another to watch the postings in the Classified section more closely, especially if we're considering placing a bid on a hat or other eBay item.

 

[photobyalan]

Jack, I think that, in cases like this, the spirit of the law is more important than the letter fo the law. Obviously, the prohibition against posting active items in this section is to keep items for sale where they belong, in the classified section. I think that's an excellent rule. In this case, though, the link to the active auction was needed to illustrate the point, and there was no intention to increase the exposure of the item for sale.

To tell the truth, I think the one you linked to would be a bit tougher call, since the problem with that auction was a case of a poor measurement by the seller (even though the size listed may be absolutely correct), not a gross misstatement of the age of the item which might cause an uneducated buyer to pay a lot more for the hat. A venial sin vs. a mortal sin, if you will. I see a lot of errors and untruths in auction listings, this one happened to be particularly egregious.

Of course, in cases like this, it comes down to a judgment call. Naturally, I think MK made the right decision letting it stand, although I would have understood if he had seen it differently.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

It has always amused and/or appalled me how many times sellers have falsely described items on ebay. I think most of it is ignorance, and not meant to deceive.

If you look at the fedoras being sold on ebay, you will find sellers describing a hat as being an "Indiana Jones" style; you pull up the photo and it turns out to be a bucket hat. Another over-sued word one is "gangster" -- I have seen bucket hats, little short-brim straw hats, porkpies, etc. described as either "gangster" or "Bogart" or "Sinatra" hats. Lots of fedoras are described as "cowboy hats."

Just like when some folks see you in your finest fedora they ask you if you are supposed to be Indiana Jones or John Wayne.

karol

 

[varga49]

I've told a few sellers that they have an era wrong or the kind of hat wrong. Some say thanks and ask questions. Others ignore you. Some people want to be as honest as they can. For others, honesty can be an obstacle. What do you do when you see someone selling a nice Stratoliner or Borsalino as a "Dobbs" because that's what the box says--how far do you go to point out the obvious?

Excellent point, Although personally I'd tell em. I've purchased over 40 hats through ebay and only had one hat that I sent back because the owner forgot to mention the moth holes. it was listed as a "mint" condition. I forgot to ask this person any questions. Buyer beware and ask as many questions as you feel the need to.

 

[Andykev]

Ebay Listings in the Hat Section

See my post elsewhere in the Hats section today regarding Ebay listings. They belong in the Classified section.

I do allow people that have WON an acution, and want to post their new acquisition for all to enjoy. Sometimes, a "HOT TIP" to the members is acceptable, but please, I don't want the Hat section to digress into a shill for Ebay.

You certainly can PM another member with the Ebay link all day long...just remember, if you are interested in something on an aution site, don't you think it is to your advantage to keep it quiet?

 

[photobyalan]

... if you are interested in something on an aution site, don't you think it is to your advantage to keep it quiet?

Amen! See this thread.