Can you jack a Knox? (Hat Needs Stretching Please Advise)

[Muzz]

My head is a perfect 23", a 7 3/8ths right? I just got a 7 3/8ths "Knox Twenty" in the mail and its a tad too small. I measured the inside carefully and its 22 1/2 inches. All I need is a half an inch for a perfect fit. Could this hat have shrunk a 1/2 an inch over the years? The sweat band ripples a little on each side showing that there might be more slack now than when the hat was made.

My question is about the "hat jack". Can I stretch out this vintage hat 1/2 an inch without harming it? Has it actually shrunk? Were sizes just different when the hat was made?

I love the hat and want to keep it. I can get it to look right, but it pinches when pulled on!

Does it look right? Thanks for any and all feedback!

 

[Feraud]

The hat looks fine.
If you want to stretch it a bit, do what I do. Wear it a lot! I have stretched many a hat using the 'ol noggin'.

 

[WEEGEE]

NO PROBLEM

GO SLOW. It seems so often the case that vintage shrink through time.

I have had the same issue and a few times the reverse. I recently bought my first Stetson Whippet and the seller had stated a large 7 1/4...being that they
were a sure 7 1/4 and the hat was big on them. I took the chance and though the size tag said 7 1/4 it fit my 7 3/8 / 23 1/4 head perfect. On the other head i have found many a smaller then tag size hat. If the sweet is soft it is of no problem to stretch it up a size or rather in you Knox's case up to its true size. GO Slow.

Nice Hat. Love the edge!!!

 

[Muzz]

Go slow with my noggin or slow with a jack?

Thanks for the super fast replies!!

 

[Feraud]

Go slow with my noggin or slow with a jack?

Thanks for the super fast replies!!

Probably both! [huh]

 

[Andykev]

No size tag visible in the picture

I would look under the sweatband for the "reorder tag" which will show the size. It is quite possible that this hat has been "oversized?" by the seller. What did they base their measurements on?

If the hat is close, I would suggest a gentle stretching via a nice vintage hat stretcher. You can find them relatively inexpensively on Ebay.

You should have one anyway..the curse of hats is they all shrink.

 

[johnnycanuck]

head block? or block head?

Getting a hat block the size of your head helps as well. When you get a hat from Art he sends you a head “Conformer”. I took a paper trace of the shape before sending it back and made several wood blocks for my other hats. So when I am not wearing my hats they sit on a block the same size and shape of my head. So they don’t shrink of loose there shape. Just my two cents worth. Don’t know how you would go about doing it without a head “conformer” though.
Johnny

 

[Canadave]

...I took a paper trace of the shape before sending it back and made several wood blocks for my other hats...

Any chance of posting a pic of the block(s)?

David

 

[johnnycanuck]

Sorry Canadave, not right now. I am between digital cameras at this point in time. But they are solid blocks of wood about 4mm thick (1 ¬?‚Äú) slightly tapered. If the truth must be told, it was my Brother in law who made them. A 16 year old that likes to play with wood. I have no idea where he got the wood, probably scrap from around the farm, and most likely just set the table saw to a few degrees and away he went. He did a better job then I could have done. I am thinking of asking him to make some pedestal stands for them as well, they sit pretty low on the entertainment unit, if I am not careful I nock the snap brims up when I put them down. Hope that helps at all. When I get back into the digital era I will try to post some pictures.
Johnny

 

[Canadave]

Thanks, johnnyc.

(What is in the background of your avatar?)

David

 

[johnnycanuck]

That’s just me sitting on a swing seat on my patio, with the neighbours beyond.

 

[BigSho]

If you have a good source of steam it will help the stretch. A steamer is obviously the best choice but if you don't have one the tea kettle would help some. When i stretch a hat I put steam directly on the hat where the brim meets the crown and rotate.

Jeremy
Hats Plus Ltd.

 

[Mr. Lucky]

From my understanding, and those that know better please feel free to correct me, is that it's the leather that shrinks over time. A few months ago I won a vintage Stetson St. Regis, a beautiful hat, that was marked 7 3/4. When I got it it was way too small. So, I dampened the sweat band and stretched the hell out of it! And it was fine. If I don't wear a hat for a while, I have to go through the same thing.

*hmmm*

Now that I come to think of it, I stretch a lot of my hats over and over again and none, new and vintage, are worse for wear because of it. I know that there are purists who rail against such action, but, really, it works for me!

 

[scotrace]

Jacking Adjustment Built In

Now, I am no expert, by any means.

But I think that that sweat band can be freed up a bit, and the hat made to fit, by the simple expedient of loosening that ribbon/string running through the leather. Loosen it, and retie.

Gentlemen, am I off my nut?

 

[Orgetorix]

Can you jack a Knox?

Leave it unattended in my vicinity, and I'll show you just how fast I can jack it!

 

[nulty]

Now, I am no expert, by any means.

But I think that that sweat band can be freed up a bit, and the hat made to fit, by the simple expedient of loosening that ribbon/string running through the leather. Loosen it, and retie.

Gentlemen, am I off my nut?

maybe but you can always get back on

I tried that on a 60's Dobbs narrow brim Golden Coach once and nothing happened. I deduced that it would not change the shape or tension of the sweat so it wasn't feasible.....It seems like it should work though..don't it?

 

[nulty]

By the way Muzz I think the hat looks OK now.....I think a 1/2 inch might be too ambitous..It can be done but anytime your stretching a narrow brim hat your risking messing with the block.. 1/2 inch..ok...but any more and trouble...

Use the jack slowly and after you've put Lexol on the sweat ..

after a bit use the tea kettle to get a funnel of steam going and just kind of inject that steam into the band and felt again carefully and slowly and evenly...don't soak the hat just let the steam seep into the felt...

expand the jack a little more then let it sit for awhile.....

 

[feltfan]

I have certainly successfully stretched a Knox Twenty (though from
a different era and with a different felt). I used Lexol and a hat
stretcher.

Go slow and put some stiff paper (with a torn, uneven edge)
between the felt and the sweatband to avoid creating an impression of
the sweatband edge in the felt crown.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Scott, you could do this if you were in the 1830's, but not today. I actually have in my collection a topper from about 1830 that has the actual sizing adjuster sewn into the sweat with twine in it for adjustment. The bow at the back of the leather is meant to portray this old method, but today is purely decorative.
Muzz, you shouldn't have a problem getting another 1/2" out of the hat, especially with the "ripples" in the leather, indicating it had shrunk at one time so no sweat, just go slow..

 

[Muzz]

Thanks

Thank you all so much for the info. A hat stretcher is in the mail and I will follow all of your instructions to the "T"! I hear the advice about leaving it be, but the pic at the top of this thread was a very pinchy fit. I just got a new hat in 7 3/8 that fits perfectly, all I will be doing to the knox is restoring it to its original state. Having worked on and restored stringed instruments for years, I fully understand the method of adjusting and waiting, adjusting more and waiting more.

I'll put up more pics when it fits!!!