Chinese leather jackets

[sokar00]

I dont understand the argument about chinese jackets being fake copies. In this space 99% of jackets are repros of brands that no longer exist or heavily inspired by stuff that was made 70+ years ago by somebody else.

Why would a 2000 $ leather trucker jacket from a japanese brand be realer or faker than a chinese version 1/4 the price when they are all copying or heavily inspired by vintage levi's/lee/wrangler jackets?

 

[Johnthefrench]

I don't understand the argument about chinese jackets being fake copies. In this space 99% of jackets are repros of brands that no longer exist or heavily inspired by stuff that was made 70+ years ago by somebody else.

Why would a 2000 $ leather trucker jacket from a japanese brand be realer or faker than a chinese version when they are all copying or heavily inspired by vintage levi's/lee/wrangler jackets?

China is associated with low-end counterfeits and mediocre quality products because that has been the case for a long time (wrong nowadays becaase they made amazing progress)


So when it affects an industry of purists, and purists realize that there are credible alternatives available for much less money, coming from a country that has been manufacturing junk for decades, they have a hard time accepting reality and refuse to accept it....

 

[zebedee]

China is associated with low-end counterfeits and mediocre quality products because that has been the case for a long time (wrong nowadays becaase they made amazing progress)


So when it affects an industry of purists, and purists realize that there are credible alternatives available for much less money, coming from a country that has been manufacturing junk for decades, they have a hard time accepting reality and refuse to accept it....

This sounds like a good argument, but there is very little QC in Chinese manufacturing at small scale. There are also relatively few possibilities to get your money back. You are paying for what you get and you do not have the immediacy of presence (i.e. you don’t live here and would be shouting into the wind if you were to complain in English online) to complain if what you want isn’t what you get. Even ‘legitimate’ products made here for foreign companies quite often fail their QC and aren’t exported: they end up in the domestic market (you used to be able to get a lot of clunky-good Panasonic equipment in Shanghai this way: the plastic failed Japanese QC tests on huge batches as the manufacturers here had skimped). If you can export an item for 400 USD to a laowai and it cost you very little to make and you’re immune to any form of consequence, why not? Years ago, I used to buy things directly from the export market in Guangzhou (you’ve never seen this many items of foreign-brand clothing in one place, even very high-end brands) and got to know quite a few of the store owners - items for export have slightly better QC, but consumers generally don’t know what quality really is (they do recognise brands): rejected stuff is ok and still fairly good (wonky stitch here and there, cheaper material used where possible. Buttons definitely cheaper. Hardware the lowest quality that will get through QC). It looks pretty much the same, if that’s what you like.

It’s always down to individual choice, but I’d always rather pay 3X the price and know that I can 99% be sure of the product than pay a lower price and have concerns over quality in the long run. When you consider that there would be a miniscule local market for heavyweight leather and that heavier leather jackets will almost always be made for laowai overseas and that you don’t need *any* QC (individual buyers aren’t huge companies), you see the issues.

 

[l0fielectronic]

I dont understand the argument about chinese jackets being fake copies. In this space 99% of jackets are repros of brands that no longer exist or heavily inspired by stuff that was made 70+ years ago by somebody else.

*I think* most peoples issue is that these are copies of other brands copies, so a copy of a copy of a copy

I do think that Real Simmons vs Real Mccoy grizzly is a great post to illustrate the details some people have issues with. The hardware, proportions and overall look of the materials, even from bad internet photos I could tell which was the budget option before reading which was which.

 

[zebedee]

I dont understand the argument about chinese jackets being fake copies. In this space 99% of jackets are repros of brands that no longer exist or heavily inspired by stuff that was made 70+ years ago by somebody else.

Why would a 2000 $ leather trucker jacket from a japanese brand be realer or faker than a chinese version 1/4 the price when they are all copying or heavily inspired by vintage levi's/lee/wrangler jackets?

Quite often, Japanese repros exceed the quality of the originals in terms of thread and hides. The hides used in many of the Western repros are often thicker and heavier than ones used in the early C20. The issue is whether or not Chinese makers are copying the designs of modern reproduction makers as opposed to developing their own patterns.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

​

After viewing many models on TaoBao, AE, COR, TB I found a specific model that isn't offered from COR or TB.
I ended up buying through AliExpress. The overall cost all in was $362 USD which is more on the higher end for many models but the overall cost is pretty low for what you're getting.

You see their posted pics but you still don't know if you're going to that.

AnnualRing Heavyweight 507 Plant Tanned Oil Free Wax Head Layer GeHorse Skin Coat Men's Motorcycle Short Denim Jacket - AliExpress 200000343

If the model, link and initial pics helps anybody that was on the fence, great. I would have loved to of seen this.

I will update the fit and provide pics as well as more info soon.

After consulting with their chart I decided to order size S. I'm 6ft' 155lbs.

Jacket came with a nice contrast stitching and is around 1.4mm hh.

Liner is Navajo'ish and is cotton.

Collar label is Veluokldly. Tag says made in China and something along the lines of fabric from Italy.


front length 24
back length 23
p2p 19.5
sleeve length 22 5/8
shoulder 17.5
Hem 18

Will provide fit pics soon

View attachment 770834

View attachment 770835

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I have exactly this same jacket. I don't know what the liner is, but i don't think it is cotton. Certainly the arms are not.

The leather feels a bit spongey. The cut of the jacket is a bit like a mall jacket - generic, with lots of room for improvement. It drapes a little awkwardly unbuttoned and when buttoned, the pattern limits my arm movements.

Having said all that, it is STILL one of my favorite jackets, and it gets a lot of compliments. If it fit better, I would wear it all day, everyday. I say the leather feels spongey but it is very easy to wear - it wears far more like naked cowhide than like horsehide. But because of that, I don't really trust the leather's durability.

I do very much like the stitching.

I paid $150 US for mine here on TFL, used but in very good condition. I would pay as much as $300 for something like it again, but never new. From Chinese makers, I want to see exactly what I'm getting - precisely because QC is so bad and there is no way to get my money back.

I also would like to say this:

I don't like mainland China very much but I do very much like the Chinese. I spent over ten years living in the Chinese diaspora in Malaysia and spent six months teaching English in Xi'an. The Chinese are hard working and smart with their money - but transparency in business practices and careful detailed craftsmanship are not part of their culture (unless we are talking traditional calligraphy), anymore than romantic love or happiness are values in their personal lives.

I would not expect such a culture to produce high-end anything, and certainly this jacket is not high-end. In my experience (very very generally speaking), the Chinese simply do not have a passion for much of anything at all except making money (please don't mistake that for greed - greed exists in Chinese culture but that is not what I am describing).

I have experienced exceptions, however, and have been overwhelmingly surprised by outstanding Chinese craftsmanship and artistry. In short and in my experience, when the Chinese are passionate, they are very passionate, and when quality is good, it is VERY good.

This jacket is not "very good", but it is good enough for me.

However, I would never argue with anybody who says I could do better.

 

[herculance]

The Chinese are hard working and smart with their money - but transparency in business practices and careful detailed craftsmanship are not part of their culture (unless we are talking traditional calligraphy), anymore than romantic love or happiness are values in their personal lives.

I would not expect such a culture to produce high-end anything, and certainly this jacket is not high-end. In my experience (very very generally speaking), the Chinese simply do not have a passion for much of anything at all except making money (please don't mistake that for greed - greed exists in Chinese culture but that is not what I am describing).

Having a lot of Chinese friends (even a half chinese gf at some point) this is just not true and it's unfair to stereotype whole culture and a billion diverse people that way, even if you did have a disclaimer at the end. US companies are shady too (2008 financial crisis, social media algorithms, subscription mania), Japan works their employees to the bone, but bc they're first world countries we don't reduce their whole culture to a stereotype. (I don't know enough about EU to have an opinion but I heard it's pretty good there). I see this tone more often than I would like to at the lounge.

Better to judge the specific makers and jackets themselves. And I agree with the criticisms.

This jacket is not "very good", but it is good enough for me.

However, I would never argue with anybody who says I could do better.

You summed up how I feel about my jackets that regularly get dunked on here (my fivestar, rugged west, 2nd hand fashion jackets) and I don't enjoy them any less. They were priced right and honest enough of what they are imo and I have no delusions that they are even 80% comparable to the revered brands here.

 

[ton312]

You're in the Chinese leather jacket thread and you just insulted everyone that has bought one. Your above analogous comment is such an awful and foolish take as well.

It’s is not my intent, nor did I personally insult anyone. You are attaching a personalized reaction to a statement made about material goods. You didn’t make your jacket. You bought it, sight unseen, off a webpage. Period. If you were to look beyond the narrow scope of this single thread and read half of the 17,000? posts I’ve made you would understand that I am anything but a label *****, brand gatekeeper, leather snob. I have no brand. I don’t favor any maker nor do I care, even in the least, about brand cache. I am in fact quite proudly the opposite of ALL of that.

However, when it comes to quality of material, construction and pattern, I most certainly do have opinions. And I will express them freely, as the forum allows, with an open mind. I have seen quality examples from Tony leathers made in China. These relabeled jackets are not that. I simply cannot ignore some of the plainly obvious faults with these jackets. If you enjoy them, that’s great. I’ve purchased a myriad of what most folks here would likely consider junk/ would never wear and enjoy them too. Some leather shop Sears trash comes to mind….

My “issue” with the cidu, etc, etc, Chinese jackets is not the manufacturer, but rather the owners, who repeatedly seem to try and convince people who read these pages that an apple is an orange. When clearly it is not.

Your comment about being a “heavy hitter’ is also bewildering to me. Am I to censor my observations based on my post count? Only type my thoughts so long as they don’t actually reflect my observations? This is not what this forum has ever been about and in so doing would and will absolutely destroy whatever credibility is left.

 

[Boulderunner]

Hey I found a rare real mccoys jacket in Hong Kong that should be able to be shipped to the us using fedex dhl or any standard carrier right? The store is apprehensive and is saying they aren’t sure they can ship to me in United state. Should be fine right?

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

Having a lot of Chinese friends (even a half chinese gf at some point) this is just not true and it's unfair to stereotype whole culture and a billion diverse people that way, even if you did have a disclaimer at the end. US companies are shady too (2008 financial crisis, social media algorithms, subscription mania), Japan works their employees to the bone, but bc they're first world countries we don't reduce their whole culture to a stereotype. (I don't know enough about EU to have an opinion but I heard it's pretty good there). I see this tone more often than I would like to at the lounge.

Better to judge the specific makers and jackets themselves. And I agree with the criticisms.


You summed up how I feel about my jackets that regularly get dunked on here (my fivestar, rugged west, 2nd hand fashion jackets) and I don't enjoy them any less. They were priced right and honest enough of what they are imo and I have no delusions that they are even 80% comparable to the revered brands here.

I anticipated someone would have this reaction but i disagree. We can generalize about cultures and I'll give you two examples:

1. In terms of individual freedom versus individual responsibility to the collective, US culture falls far more on the side of individual freedom, Europe strikes more of a balance, and China is far more on the side of individual responsibility to the collective.

2. One of the primary values of Western culture is a marriage of love. The idea of marrying if you don't love someone is utterly foreign and even anethema in the West.

Not so in Asia. Marriage throughout Asia is a contact and a business and marrying for love remains incredibly unusual.

You say you have many Chinese friends. I would ask where those friends are. Because if they are in Shanghai or Guongzhou, then that's like saying you know US culture because you know people in LA or NYC. No, you don't. Go spend time in a medium-sized Chinese city and you'll find a culture that lacks a consumer basis, where people's fundamental value is to do what is best for their family. And to a Chinese mind, doing what is best for your family means making money.

Making money because it is what is right for the family is the value that trumps art, it trumps fashion, it trumps love, it trumps anything that you the individual might be passionate about. The individual has a responsibility to the family and to the collective... anything less than that is egoism.

If you don't know that China, then I would go so far as to say you don't know Asia. Making money for your family is fundamental to Chinese values and yes, Chinese culture can be generalized in this way even if there are some exceptions now.

 

[Boulderunner]

I’ll comment on this. Recently I saw an “influencer” who previously would post great pics of his himel jackets and lots of other really great vintage inspired clothes. In the last month he has started posting his new “La Brea” which is obviously a stolen pattern and name from Freewheelers. The company Brake House gave him a discount to start shilling their jackets. I guess Brake House is based out of South Korea but makes its jackets in China. The first thing I thought when I saw him posting is that he could literally put someone like Himel out of business. That’s not right. And brake house is blatantly just stealing patterns and then sourcing cheap labor to undercut guys like Himel, aero, field, Simmons etc. why would anyone support that type of practice from just a principle standpoint? The la brea brake house looked okay on the surface and the leather looked okay but it was clearly a mid level reproduction

 

[herculance]

then I would go so far as to say you don't know Asia

I am literally a born and raised Asian who grew up in that kind of collective culture.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I understand and agree to your point that cultural tendencies exist. But economic context (not inherent cultural character) explains a lot of behavior. Rapid development, generational sacrifice, and family mobility pressures shape priorities without it meaning that people lack passion or artistry. I think maybe it's also in how you worded it "money over passion" that just doesn't ring true for me, the framing feels reductive.

We can just agree to disagree as to not derail the thread. I respect your view as an outside observer looking in too; I’m just speaking from having lived inside it.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

I am literally a born and raised Asian who grew up in that kind of collective culture.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I understand and agree to your point that cultural tendencies exist. But economic context (not inherent cultural character) explains a lot of behavior. Rapid development, generational sacrifice, and family mobility pressures shape priorities without it meaning that people lack passion or artistry. I think maybe it's also in how you worded it "money over passion" that just doesn't ring true for me, the framing feels reductive.

We can just agree to disagree as to not derail the thread. I respect your view as an outside observer looking in too; I’m just speaking from having lived inside it.

These are all very fair statements. I am also always learning about Asia and Asia is still rapidly changing. Plus, the majority of my experience was with a Chinese community in Malaysia - and diasporic communities can be more conservative.

I totally respect you and I love Chinese culture. Nothing I've said was meant as an insult - the differences are truly just fascinating to me.

And yeah, maybe this isn't the place for this conversation, so even though I have questions for you about your response, I'll let it go.

Glad we could find some clarity, though. Gong Xi Fa Cai!

 

[herculance]

These are all very fair statements. I am also always learning about Asia and Asia is still rapidly changing. Plus, the majority of my experience was with a Chinese community in Malaysia - and diasporic communities can be more conservative.

I totally respect you and I love Chinese culture. Nothing I've said was meant as an insult - the differences are truly just fascinating to me.

And yeah, maybe this isn't the place for this conversation, so even though I have questions for you about your response, I'll let it go.

Glad we could find some clarity, though. Gong Xi Fa Cai!

No offense taken, man. All good discussion.

Gong Xi Fa Cai!

 

[ABCD]

The company Brake House gave him a discount to start shilling their jackets. I guess Brake House is based out of South Korea but makes its jackets in China.

I think it's even worse. Brake house is a drop ship company who sells $250 Real Simons jackets for $400. These Instagram 'influencers' are promoting a drop shipper lol.

 

[Zoro]

I think it's even worse. Brake house is a drop ship company who sells $250 Real Simons jackets for $400. These Instagram 'influencers' are promoting a drop shipper lol.

This is what I majorly dislike about the Chinese jackets "universe": People don't know the difference between makers and middlemen, so they end up worshipping the middlemen (Brake House, Tailor Brando, Crush On Retro) who are all selling the same stuff with a price bump. That's not inherently a bad thing, you're paying extra on the service of not going through the hassle of having to use an agent (Like CSSbuy mentioned a bit ago in this thread) and navigating Taobao and the like yourself.

Anyway, on this quality discussion, I think Chinese leather jackets are fantastic. The one I have is by far my most complimented jacket despite being clearly the worst one (worst pattern with the huge neckhole, a couple discolored spots since day 1, only jacket I own with some scratches that I can't even tell how they occurred, leather feels and looks the cheapest in comparison). Or perhaps I should say the least good rather than worse, cause I'm still quite happy with it and worth the price I paid.

I find them to be quite better than any mall leather jacket, whether they are the same price or twice the price. I also wouldn't say they're 95% the product Aero or RMC provides, but while I would not have a problem saying Aero is 2x the jacket, I do have a problem saying RMC is 10x the jacket. Diminishing returns kicking in, it happens everywhere. iPhone is not 4 times the phone of a Xiaomi. Sony MDR-Z1R is not 20 times the headphone of a Shure SHR440. Le Creuset is not 10 times the casserole of a Lidl one. But people are happy to go on Reddit, Instagram and Youtube to claim their Xiaomi, Shure and Lidl are as good as the iPhone, the Sony and the Le Creuset, which just isn't true either. They are all the same object, all do the same basic function, but at the same time the amount of little differences become overwhelming if you start listing them. Same as with cars, but when it comes to cars I just do not see people claiming their Peugeot is as good as a BMW.

It's the above that makes me think that people coming here with few messages saying their Vele0ouisdiihjodaly Crush On Retro jacket is 95% the same as RMC are not bots nor paid influencers. To me they are just people happy with their purchase who perhaps don't know better or hyperbolying (hyperbolizing? hyperboling?) their thoughts in a niche place where they've learnt about the topic. Influencers got paid to influence and it worked either directly or indirectly! Outside this forum, pretty much nobody is going to tell the difference at a glance, chances are most people have not even seen a better leather jacket than the Chinese ones, of course they're blown away by their quality.

The value of the Chinese jackets is very simple: Lot of different styles, lot of different leathers and colors, lot of different sizes, all readily available on the cheap. Buy a new Aero, it will take a couple months and double the money. Buy a new RMC, you will either fly to Japan or buy it more expensive from a dealer in your region IF they have your model and size available, which I usually see sold out. If you don't like it? Yes, RMC and Aero will retain their value in the used market, but the Chinese one is cheap enough that (at least to me) would not really be a loss either if you end up not liking it or being a bad fit. And if you do like it? You can always buy the expensive jacket now you know the style works for you. Or just keep it, it may not be 5000 USD but it should still last you for many years.

 

[Kenmar8181]

This is what I majorly dislike about the Chinese jackets "universe": People don't know the difference between makers and middlemen, so they end up worshipping the middlemen (Brake House, Tailor Brando, Crush On Retro) who are all selling the same stuff with a price bump. That's not inherently a bad thing, you're paying extra on the service of not going through the hassle of having to use an agent (Like CSSbuy mentioned a bit ago in this thread) and navigating Taobao and the like yourself.

Anyway, on this quality discussion, I think Chinese leather jackets are fantastic. The one I have is by far my most complimented jacket despite being clearly the worst one (worst pattern with the huge neckhole, a couple discolored spots since day 1, only jacket I own with some scratches that I can't even tell how they occurred, leather feels and looks the cheapest in comparison). Or perhaps I should say the least good rather than worse, cause I'm still quite happy with it and worth the price I paid.

I find them to be quite better than any mall leather jacket, whether they are the same price or twice the price. I also wouldn't say they're 95% the product Aero or RMC provides, but while I would not have a problem saying Aero is 2x the jacket, I do have a problem saying RMC is 10x the jacket. Diminishing returns kicking in, it happens everywhere. iPhone is not 4 times the phone of a Xiaomi. Sony MDR-Z1R is not 20 times the headphone of a Shure SHR440. Le Creuset is not 10 times the casserole of a Lidl one. But people are happy to go on Reddit, Instagram and Youtube to claim their Xiaomi, Shure and Lidl are as good as the iPhone, the Sony and the Le Creuset, which just isn't true either. They are all the same object, all do the same basic function, but at the same time the amount of little differences become overwhelming if you start listing them. Same as with cars, but when it comes to cars I just do not see people claiming their Peugeot is as good as a BMW.

It's the above that makes me think that people coming here with few messages saying their Vele0ouisdiihjodaly Crush On Retro jacket is 95% the same as RMC are not bots nor paid influencers. To me they are just people happy with their purchase who perhaps don't know better or hyperbolying (hyperbolizing? hyperboling?) their thoughts in a niche place where they've learnt about the topic. Influencers got paid to influence and it worked either directly or indirectly! Outside this forum, pretty much nobody is going to tell the difference at a glance, chances are most people have not even seen a better leather jacket than the Chinese ones, of course they're blown away by their quality.

The value of the Chinese jackets is very simple: Lot of different styles, lot of different leathers and colors, lot of different sizes, all readily available on the cheap. Buy a new Aero, it will take a couple months and double the money. Buy a new RMC, you will either fly to Japan or buy it more expensive from a dealer in your region IF they have your model and size available, which I usually see sold out. If you don't like it? Yes, RMC and Aero will retain their value in the used market, but the Chinese one is cheap enough that (at least to me) would not really be a loss either if you end up not liking it or being a bad fit. And if you do like it? You can always buy the expensive jacket now you know the style works for you. Or just keep it, it may not be 5000 USD but it should still last you for many years.

Very well said.

 

[Herrvallmo]

This is what I majorly dislike about the Chinese jackets "universe": People don't know the difference between makers and middlemen, so they end up worshipping the middlemen (Brake House, Tailor Brando, Crush On Retro) who are all selling the same stuff with a price bump. That's not inherently a bad thing, you're paying extra on the service of not going through the hassle of having to use an agent (Like CSSbuy mentioned a bit ago in this thread) and navigating Taobao and the like yourself.

Anyway, on this quality discussion, I think Chinese leather jackets are fantastic. The one I have is by far my most complimented jacket despite being clearly the worst one (worst pattern with the huge neckhole, a couple discolored spots since day 1, only jacket I own with some scratches that I can't even tell how they occurred, leather feels and looks the cheapest in comparison). Or perhaps I should say the least good rather than worse, cause I'm still quite happy with it and worth the price I paid.

I find them to be quite better than any mall leather jacket, whether they are the same price or twice the price. I also wouldn't say they're 95% the product Aero or RMC provides, but while I would not have a problem saying Aero is 2x the jacket, I do have a problem saying RMC is 10x the jacket. Diminishing returns kicking in, it happens everywhere. iPhone is not 4 times the phone of a Xiaomi. Sony MDR-Z1R is not 20 times the headphone of a Shure SHR440. Le Creuset is not 10 times the casserole of a Lidl one. But people are happy to go on Reddit, Instagram and Youtube to claim their Xiaomi, Shure and Lidl are as good as the iPhone, the Sony and the Le Creuset, which just isn't true either. They are all the same object, all do the same basic function, but at the same time the amount of little differences become overwhelming if you start listing them. Same as with cars, but when it comes to cars I just do not see people claiming their Peugeot is as good as a BMW.

It's the above that makes me think that people coming here with few messages saying their Vele0ouisdiihjodaly Crush On Retro jacket is 95% the same as RMC are not bots nor paid influencers. To me they are just people happy with their purchase who perhaps don't know better or hyperbolying (hyperbolizing? hyperboling?) their thoughts in a niche place where they've learnt about the topic. Influencers got paid to influence and it worked either directly or indirectly! Outside this forum, pretty much nobody is going to tell the difference at a glance, chances are most people have not even seen a better leather jacket than the Chinese ones, of course they're blown away by their quality.

The value of the Chinese jackets is very simple: Lot of different styles, lot of different leathers and colors, lot of different sizes, all readily available on the cheap. Buy a new Aero, it will take a couple months and double the money. Buy a new RMC, you will either fly to Japan or buy it more expensive from a dealer in your region IF they have your model and size available, which I usually see sold out. If you don't like it? Yes, RMC and Aero will retain their value in the used market, but the Chinese one is cheap enough that (at least to me) would not really be a loss either if you end up not liking it or being a bad fit. And if you do like it? You can always buy the expensive jacket now you know the style works for you. Or just keep it, it may not be 5000 USD but it should still last you for many years.

Well said mate

 

[MadCat]

Id rather spend the few hundred more on a jacket from a company with history and good track record/patterns etc. Vanson, Johnson Leathers, Aero etc.

 

[Zoro]

Id rather spend the few hundred more on a jacket from a company with history and good track record/patterns etc. Vanson, Johnson Leathers, Aero etc.

To each their own, but you speak as if for a "few hundred" you actually got that buying directly from them or authorized dealers.

You are not getting a Johnson Leathers for a few hundred more, you're getting it for a grand+ more and lead times. Aero maybe from their used or apprentice jackets (which is still limited stock on styles, leathers and sizes), otherwise it's another grand. Vanson I was actually close to making a note in my previous post about them, I would always go for them for an actual few hundred more, but 1) I'm not US based, so the few hundred again turns into almost a grand more due to import taxes 2) Chinese jackets still have more different styles and colors available.