choosing a montecristi

[indy1936a]

I am looking to purchase a montecrisiti. Has anyone purchased from Brent Black before? Any reports on the price vs quality for each level of hat?

Thanks for the help,

harry

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Welcome to the lounge.
I haven't bought a hat from Brent Black because of his prices.

I have bought 6 Montecristi hats from Panamabob a member here at The Fedora Lounge, Art Fawcett another Lounger and Master Hatter did the great block for me. I have been pleased with all of them.

Here is a link to my Fino Fino i got last year. It is the nicest Montecristi i own.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=943&highlight=montecristi

http://www.panamas.biz/ Panamabob

http://www.vintagesilhouettes.com/gentlemans.htm Art Fawcett

 

[indy1936a]

Thanks for the links! My biggest concern has been determing how any of these hats will look without a test fit. I will probably decide based on fedoras that i currently own. The crown height for panamas seems to be slightly lower than models that i own.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

If you have a hat store in your area you could try on some of there straws and measure the brim and crown and let Robert know.

I found that i liked some of the standard Montecristi hat styles. So i bought several styles and grades from him.

 

[indy1936a]

i tried a few panama's on at the store but the styles really don't compare to what i've seen from Robert and Brent. I am having difficulty deciding on ribbon/band width as well. For example when comparing Brents Gatsby/Classic.

 

[Panamabob]

I'll let anyone else comment on comparisons of quality...but I'll tell you this, you won't beat the price:quality ratio if you try us and Art's blocking is second to none...as well as his selection of ribbons and leathers. I may not be a sweet talker, but I know the hats are of top quality. You definitely get what you pay for and I'll stand by that.

 

[gcollins]

Hey Indy:

I have BB panamas, and they are great! I like the Gatsby. Brent makes some of the very best panamas around, chooses and gets among the best bodies, and the blocking and detailing are primo, as is his customer service--if you don't like what he sends, he'll send you another or a few to choose from. He'll choose bodies for you based on the trade-offs you prefer among color, weave consistency, pinholes, etc. and he'll work with you to no end to satisy you.

You pay more for that with Brent Black though. He has great bodies and hats, and they are pricey if you really want the best bodies in the high weave counts. If you are really picky, really know what you want in a Monticristis and want the best of breed, he's the man.

PanamaBob, however, can get you a good price on a hat (blocked by his guys in Ecuador) or body (blocked by Art F or someone else). You don't get to choose the tradeoffs on the hat, or get customer service, and he won't sort bodies for you and choose the best for you. But he will get you get a Montecristi of the weave count and brim size you want at a very good price.

If this is your first Monticristi and you are not really sure you want to pay the prices for the really good hats, Bob will get you a one at a good price. Probably the best price around for a standard commodity Montecristi. I don't have any of his hats, but a few folks around here do.

Regards,
G

 

[SHARPETOYS]

gcollins Wrote

If this is your first Monticristi and you are not really sure you want to pay the prices for the really good hats, Bob will get you a one at a good price. Probably the best price around for a standard commodity Montecristi. I don't have any of his hats, but a few folks around here do.

Regards,

G

Here is what i did to get the finest hat. I told Panamabob how many wpsi., back weave ,color.a few pin holes( They all have them unless they puff them up with a stiffner)

My Montecristi has none of that. Block style i wanted and my hat size. The block you choose will tell him how big the hat has to be woven to give you enough brim and crown height.

It took him 7 months to find the grade of hat i wanted. I paid in the hundreds of dollars for the hat. Optimo Hat Co saw the hat and he said if he had the same hat it would sell for $2500 to $3000.

I won"t even quote you what BB told me. I also took it to another famous hat seller on the east cost coast and was given the same opinion.

My point is you can get the finest hat you want and not pay thousands for it.
You need to let Robert work with you and give him some trust and you will end up with your Perfect Hat. I did and many others on here did also.

He doesn't stock these hats he gets them from the weavers as he needs them made for the high end hat buyer.

The other grade hats he can have those in weeks for you!!

Best hats for the money i have ever found!!

 

[indy1936a]

what are pinholes and what causes them?
thanks again

 

[gcollins]

Good work, sharpey! :cheers1:

You are right on about what it takes to get the best hat at the best price, whether beaver or straw. Knowledge is power, and if you know precisely what you want, you minimize the variability in getting something that does not meet your expectations for whatever price you are willing to pay. That's a lesson for all us hat buyers, or consumers in general. Published prices and general info are...just that. And with Monticristis and the Bob-Art combo available, the fact that you can control the supply chain better (body from one vendor, and custom styling/detailing from a maker) allows you to pull the $$ out of the finished product and increase chances of getting exactly what you want and what you pay for.

I have not done business with PanamaBob yet because I know what I want, and for the price that's been given, I can get the best in class body for a given weave count cheaper and faster from Brent Black. And I like to get photos of bodies from which to choose, to ensure that piece of the supply chain is controlled as well. BB and PB have different business models.

Good example, sharpey, of the right way to get the hat you want at the best price! I recommend Indy to work with PB and Art as well--good price for a first panama from PB, and Art can also help with the ribbon widths with lots of choices.

Regards,
G

 

[Panamabob]

Pinholes are simply small holes that allow light to pass through. It is from the very nature of a handwoven hat. Noone is perfect!

The hats from Las Cruces de Pile de Montecristi have a scattered arrangements of pinholes. No rhyme, nor reason. The hats from Pampa have an almost uniform pinholes...as if a place where the weaver took a break or tied off.

Pile, traditionally, has the higher priced hats, but Montubios say there is no difference in quality.

 

[gcollins]

Just so we can go back to talking about hats on FL, Bob may not be wholly true, but what he writes about me savagely (and rudely, I might add) bullying him.... is fair. More than fair. Sorry about that! The damage is done, and I am sorry. I am responsible for my actions. :beer: :cry:
Those here that do know me in person know that I am in fact the same slave-owning tyrant my internet persona projects.

There's a natural difficulty with vendors or hatters selling their goods in a discussion forum--they just can't get upset if people choose to buy from someone else or post reviews that point to areas of needed improvement in product or service. Vendors also have a difficult conflict of interest in putting down their more successful competitors. If people can sell a $500 hat for $10,000, they should do it! More, they would do it. Unfortunately, we don't hear too much about people making $9000+ on a second-hand Monticristi, now, do we. And we don't see the arbitrage on e-bay or elsewhere. So....

Anyway, what's fair is fair. Mea culpa. Now, back to the hats.... Peace!

G

 

[indy1936a]

Found out from talking to Brent that we went to the same college. Small world.

 

[gcollins]

Hi Robert, thanks. No worries. I too think of the people here as friends, and you and I are just friends that debate topics of fine hats. No biggie. That's why many come here--they learn through discussion and debate. There are no shills here on FL, of course. Everyone strives to be objective and just loves a nice hat. You are the Montecristi expert, I am an amateur enthusiast, as are others here. That we debate in good form here on FL is good for the hat industry and the economy. We can always box in the Ring at Silver Beaver Saloon at gladdhatter.com/forum, but we don't need to anymore.

And I am your potential customer and refer potential customers to you and and other hat makers. I am a demanding SOB. I know that, and my public expects that of me. I am nothing but a simple monk who likes the best hats. No agendas, just the best at the best price. I have the first 4th of the Hat Pilgrimage book of essays done. When I meet you, check it out. I am excited that the grant from Harpers and has come through to continue through to completion! We'll do a 4-part series in Harpers before final publication. NPR will do a preview interview in May. Isn't that fun?

Thanks, Robert!

G

 

[gcollins]

Hi Robert, what are my thoughts? They are nothing of much substance, as I have answers for no one but myself. You know better than I. I don't live in the US, so all I know is what I read and hear. I am just here on FL to learn and talk about hats.

 

[Panamabob]

In choosing a Montecristi you should take into account many things.

I would look at the weave count, weave quality (straightness of rows, size of the paja as uniform as possible), backweave, and finish (not blocked finish, but how the finisher in Montecristi cuts the paja down).

Some aesthetic things:

Pinholes,
Color,
Crown Height
Brim Length
Texture

The best way to do it is to pick it out yourself.

 

[gcollins]

... or controlled by tight little cliques of sycophants who verbally beat down, intimidate or ridicule any with dissenting opinions. It's a shame, but most of the web forums out there permit a very narrow range of "free speech", and in particular there are certain vendors and products that are NOT permitted to be criticized, however mildly.

Good point, Old Hat. There were a lot of accusations and banning of members in the past accusing FL of beng a forum that could not tolerate any criticism of Optimo Hats in Chicago's claims of beaver content in their nutria/hare hats and the like. But this forum has indeed moved beyond that intentionally. Thank Jesus! It's a fair place here at FL, to be sure. Hang around, it's a good community with good people and there is a lot to learn about with hats. Just when you think you know it all, someone surprises you.

Regards,
G

 

[Victor]

Bob, I think you misundertood him. It looks to me that he was saying that he won't think that he knows it all for a long long time. Not a pompous statement at all.

 

[indy1936a]

montecristi arrived today. will post pictures soon.

 

[Panamabob]

That's great. Would love to see them. Put a dime or a ruler on the weave so we can count the weaves, too! Can't wait.