Current USAF Issue A-2s

[Republic_Flier]

How does the US Wings Current Issue A-2 stack up to the Cockpit version? Anyone got any ideas?

 

[pjstrass]

the current issue US Wings...I have one..made NOT in the USA is not bad for $195...current price and is nicer than the Cooper I had a few years ago before they went out of business. I suspect that the Cockpit is a better jacket from the info on this website that I have seen over the last couple of years...also more expensive...beware the current issue is a slimmer fit than the other A2s from US Wings at the same current price...

 

[Fifty150]

I have a Cockpit A-2 in horsehide. I'm just not that sophisticated. I put it on, and can't tell the difference between that, and my other leather jackets. Goatskin, horsehide, cowhide......not much difference to me. Not like the obvious when it's buttery soft lamb skin, versus the pig skin on a football.

 

[ButteMT61]

I have a Cockpit A-2 in horsehide. I'm just not that sophisticated. I put it on, and can't tell the difference between that, and my other leather jackets. Goatskin, horsehide, cowhide......not much difference to me. Not like the obvious when it's buttery soft lamb skin, versus the pig skin on a football.

Well, maybe you're lucky then? Dunno. Sometimes my OCD/**** retentive personality is a PITA. You may be living in bliss! OTOH, I love this stuff, so I suppose I'm glad to be a slave to it all...

 

[regius]

there is absolutely no reason to think USA skins should be of superior quality than imported. Sometimes "imported" stuff is better. The American goats are on fkkkkking steroids (i may be exaggerating, but only to make a point), and their hide cracks up. also, many old American tanneries have been shut down (and America is never known for its tannery in the first place). Go for Pakistanian skin and Argentinian skins, many Italian skins are from Argentina, no matter how you don't like the country's name, like thei skins

 

[regius]

USA skin vs imported skins

there is absolutely no reason to think USA skins should be of superior quality than imported. Sometimes "imported" stuff is better. The American goats are on fkkkkking steroids (i may be exaggerating, but only to make a point), and their hide cracks up. also, many old American tanneries have been shut down (and America is never known for its tannery in the first place). Go for Pakistanian skin and Argentinian skins, many Italian skins are from Argentina, no matter how you don't like the country's name, like thei skins

 

[ButteMT61]

there is absolutely no reason to think USA skins should be of superior quality than imported. Sometimes "imported" stuff is better. The American goats are on fkkkkking steroids (i may be exaggerating, but only to make a point), and their hide cracks up. also, many old American tanneries have been shut down (and America is never known for its tannery in the first place). Go for Pakistanian skin and Argentinian skins, many Italian skins are from Argentina, no matter how you don't like the country's name, like thei skins

Yeah, same message as yesterday. Another person trying to make something out of nothing. Get your jackets/skins from where you like. Don't preach about though - please?

 

[Fifty150]

Makes you really think. American cows get growth hormones also. Yet, I've never had a problem with a leather jacket, because the cow was bigger. How can growth hormones result in the leather being inferior? Where is the science there? Or is it just another "myth" that needs busting?

 

[ButteMT61]

Makes you really think. American cows get growth hormones also. Yet, I've never had a problem with a leather jacket, because the cow was bigger. How can growth hormones result in the leather being inferior? Where is the science there? Or is it just another "myth" that needs busting?

It was a bad troll to get someone in a debate. Don't bother. No science, just a big bucket of bull dung...

 

[dunedinmitch]

US Wings Vs Cockpit

How does the US Wings Current Issue A-2 stack up to the Cockpit version? Anyone got any ideas?

Well, first US wings "Current Issue" is NOT current issue, US Wings fraudulently states that they are a current issue supplier, they are not. If you have questions you can contact the US Air Force, Cockpit USA is currently the only authorized "Issue supplier". I point this out because when I was researching my purchase US Wings tried to tell me that they were a current supplier, and I was told, and foudn out from the USAF/DoD that the are not.

Anyway, talking to 4-5 current and previous A-2 suppliers, apparently due to the current regulations and specs, the current issue A-2 must use US raised goatskins, and apparently these goat skins are not as "nice" as those from other regions, Pakistan is one of those regions. I was told, this is simply due to the fact that goats raised for skins are not a staple in the US. The particular breeds raised in the US are more for milk than skins and meat, and are often smaller and less "sturdy" so it is harder to get the larger skins required for single piece back A-2s. But, if you are OK with it, Cockpit, and other suppliers do offer issue spec jackets made with imported skins, which are better quality. I have one, it is awesome (Cockpit), and contrary to some other posts the current Cockpit jackets are tailored a bit roomier, not tight.

I would highly recommend Cockpit; they are the current USAF Issue supplier, offer many options, and you cannot, cannot, find better customer service. Try them, you will not be disappointed...

 

[ButteMT61]

The Cockpit actually makes nice jackets. Accurate repros? No. Nice modern military-inspired jackets, yes. Very nicely made. Again, for what they are. That goes for USW and Schott as well.

 

[regius]

let me set the record straight about Cockpit, if you go down to their showroom in new york now, their jackets, horsehide or goats, are all very nice, there IS INDEED some russet brown horse A2 that appear to be paperish and too smooth, but they have stopped using that tanning technique. their new horsehide is just as good as Aero, in fact, Aero may well source their American horse from the same place!!

 

[ButteMT61]

I've never seen a Cockpit or Avirex with ****py hides. They're just cut big and are usually adorned with crazy liners. They are nicely made though, accuracy be damned. If someone likes a certain model, I'd say buy it.

 

[regius]

nobody here is trying to stir up a debate, rather, i was stirred up to make this response. someone previously got a bit patriotic and oozed some preference towards domestic goatskins. i am just making a point that is in fact backed by much science, only you don't want to listen, the hormones make the animal grow faster and and less time for the full protein in the tissue to form and stand the test of time as the animal had to take to grow up slowly and more "steadily", instead they are "blew up" to their super size like balloons, my friend is a biologist/geneticist working on this kind of topics. Want to know why the real leather expert somewhat prefer cowhide and goatskin to horsehide? horse don't change their shape when they mature as much as cows and goats, exactly how I don't know, but that's what they told me. so the horsehide is less tensile and prone to crack, stretches less. So, here's the science, no debate, and no blind patriotism, just want to make an informed comment on the hides. Anyone is welcome to choose their hide and their jackets, made in wherever if they like. Argentinian cowhide is pretty **** in my opinion, so I am not proposing Argentina is all superior at skins.

 

[regius]

true, Cockpit is undervalued, their jackets are pretty nice, I never saw the "glorious" days of avirex, but the owner of cockpit, in fact, the lady who started Avirex and cockpit, she's always in the showroom, claims the cockpit is better (but that's just marketing). I had a vintage avirex goat A2 with scovill zippers, knits and stitchings just are fantastic, that jacket was from the early 80s. so, I should say cockpit is at least no inferior (hopefully). I love their new seal brown horse A2, just like an Aero, and fits better.

 

[ButteMT61]

No debates? Wrong place for that.

 

[Worf]

As a relative noob (to collecting A2's that is) I'll only speak on jackets I OWN. I've an early 80's Avirex HH A2. It's "correct" in most respects except for the leather hanger in the back and some labeling. It's the best of the 4 soon to be 5 A2's I own. Despite it's age it's still stiff in the body but wearing it every chance I get to "break her in". I like the jacket and it's a keeper but not an everyday'er like my Schott or Fakey A2. I've A2's in HH and Cowhide, but not in goat or lamb. I do have a driving coat by Wilson in Indian lamb/goat (I don't know which) which I'm just having rebuttoned. It's stiff as cardboard. I'll have to do some real work to get that one soft.

Worf

 

[Doctor Damage]

I recently came across a government document providing details on the current issue USAF A-2 jacket (or “Jacket, Flyer’s, A-2 Leather”). This document is designated A-A-55265 and is dated February 16 1995. You can download the PDF version of this document HERE. Click on the tiny PDF symbol next to “base document”. It’s the DLA website and the download is safe.

This document is worth reading for anyone interested in these jackets. Here are some highlights:

OUTERSHELL - shell is to be made from garment grade soft, pliable, full-grain, chrome-tanned goatskin leather between 0.7 mm and 0.9 mm thick

LINING - lining is to be made from 100% rayon or a blend of polyester and rayon or polyester and cotton with a weight of 3.5 to 4.5 ounces per square yard of the same colour as the shell

KNITS - knitted cuffs and waistband are to be a 1X1 rib knit cloth, 2-ply, 100% cotton yarn or a blend of cotton and polyester… cuffs to finish 4” to 4.25” in length and waistband to finish 2” in length

Here’s a summary table reproducing the official measurements:

 

[Doctor Damage]

Below are a bunch of recent photos of USAF personnel wearing A-2 jackets in operational and non-operational settings from the USAF website. The names of these photos are made up of the image number and names of persons depicted. If you want more info you can use google to search for the image numbers. I think it’s interesting that A-2 jackets are being worn in a few cases in flight and pre-flight settings by transport command personnel.

 

[Edward]

I recently came across a government document providing details on the current issue USAF A-2 jacket (or “Jacket, Flyer’s, A-2 Leather”). This document is designated A-A-55265 and is dated February 16 1995. You can download the PDF version of this document here: http://quicksearch.dla.mil/qsDocDetails.aspx?ident_number=115467. Click on the tiny PDF symbol next to “base document”. It’s the DLA website and the download is safe.

This document is worth reading for anyone interested in these jackets. Here are some highlights:
- shell is to be made from garment grade soft, pliable, full-grain, chrome-tanned goatskin leather between 0.7 mm and 0.9 mm thick
- lining is to be made from 100% rayon or a blend of polyester and rayon or polyester and cotton with a weight of 3.5 to 4.5 ounces per square yard of the same colour as the shell
- knitted cuffs and waistband are to be a 1X1 rib knit cloth, 2-ply, 100% cotton yarn or a blend of cotton and polyester… cuffs to finish 4” to 4.25” in length and waistband to finish 2” in length

Here’s a summary table reproducing the official measurements:

Interesting information. Definitely confirms that these are much looser a fit by design than the original A2; whereas I'm a 44 in most original fits (I can fit a 42 for the later warf contracts, boxier shape), for these I'd have to size down to a 40 to be hapy in them. I suspect this is reflective of the modern jackets beinbg likely to be worn over a bulky flight-suit rather than a collar and tie?