Dating borsalino liner logos

[randooch]

novice, thanks for sharing your pics. I love those deeply embossed sweatbands.

Post a noggin shot in the Homburg Nation thread when you get time.

Oh, and welcome!

 

[Surfanarchist]

New hat

Hi all,

This may be my first post. Been hanging around for a while. I just bought this from ebay. I probably did not do that well as far as getting a good deal but I like the hat, it's my size, so after that it's all gravy. Anyway, it's a Borsalino with "Lee Myers" on the sweat band. Any thought as to it's age?

Thanks,

Wayne

 

[mayserwegener]

A photo of the paper label behind the sweatband would be more helpful. You may want to look into when Lee Myers went out of business. My guess on the hat would be 1960s/70s.

 

[Surfanarchist]

Thanks, as soon as I have it in my hands I'll post the paper label pic. Probably should have asked for it before i bought it but this is my first time buying a "vintage" hat and I just like the color, style and that it was my size.

 

[gcollins]

Full Circle

Fellas,

I started this thread in 2005, and credit to FL in maintaining the finest chronicle of hat knowledge there is.

I recently picked up a couple of Borso Homburgs to match the very first one that started this thread. A cool blue/grey and a black! All in punto sizes. I'm still curious as to the relative age of the hats, and I'll post the photos to get your take. Numbering doesn't seem to jive based on the quality of the felt. I'll post the pics. jamespowers, if you are still on the grid, you for sure know by now.

Best,
G

 

[TomS]

Hi folks:
I'm curious to know what the resident experts think about the age of this Borso? I appreciate any thoughts.
Best,
Tom

.

 

[mayserwegener]

It's definitely mid 50s to around 1980. My guess would be 1960s/70s. Borsalino used many of the same parts (from the mid to late 50s) up until the business was sold in the very early 1980s. A photo of the paper label behind the sweatband might help.

Also you should check out the Borsalino Brotherhood thread. It has a bunch of good information and is a better place to post inquiries such as yours.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD/page288&highlight=Search...

 

[Lotsahats]

Proud owner of my first Borsalino, I'm applying for membership in the brotherhood. I'm curious to know if anyone has dating information based on these Borsalino labels:

I've read around enough to know that the number label is a "later" label, but what does that mean? I've also not been able to find any but one other example of this liner label.

Cheers,
Aaron

 

[mayserwegener]

There is no way to know an exact date based on the paper label because nobody on here has that information. People have tried to get the information from Borsalino but it appears they no longer have it or don't care to look for it. The Borsalino family sold the business in the early 1980s so it's totally different company today. Based on the paper label (no Borsalino on the side) this hat could be from the mid to late 1950s up to the early to mid 1970s. From the mid 1970s to the sale of the company in the early 1980s they started to include the production year. You see these specialized liners mostly for hat stores in Italy and maybe some other Euro hat stores (not sure about the US). Borsalino was very consistent during that time period regarding construction methods and parts. There is no way to determine a exact date so the paper label date range also applies in this case.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I have a Borsalino from 1938 (according to the daughter of the original purchaser, who bought it before leaving Paris in early 1939, never to return) with that label style - no Borsalino on the left side. Like almost everything "Borsalino", it's not consistent enough for accurate dating.

I've read around enough to know that the number label is a "later" label, but what does that mean? I've also not been able to find any but one other example of this liner label.

 

[Lotsahats]

Many thanks!

Aaron

 

[mayserwegener]

I have a Borsalino from 1938 (according to the daughter of the original purchaser, who bought it before leaving Paris in early 1939, never to return) with that label style - no Borsalino on the left side. Like almost everything "Borsalino", it's not consistent enough for accurate dating.

Does the label look like this one? How about posting some photos? I haven't seen any Borsalino from the 1930s with such a label. This label is consistent with 1950s (exactly when is the question) and later Borsalinos.

 

[alanfgag]

Yes, it would be great to have a photo of such a label.

The label Aaron posted might go back to mid-1950s. We have O.P.S. Borsalinos that show the familiar earlier version with side logo imprint.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, just like that one above. Different numbers and style/colour designations, of course. It's a weird hat - very French low crown, wide brim style. The felt is gorgeously light and soft. And the label has European size designation, and the sweatband is marked to a Paris hatter. But it also has a British 6 7/8 size label on it. Maybe a hatter that catered to expats … I have, of course, only the daughter's information as to the date, but there's no reason to think she's got it wrong.

Does the label look like this one? How about posting some photos? I haven't seen any Borsalino from the 1930s with such a label. This label is consistent with 1950s (exactly when is the question) and later Borsalinos.

 

[alanfgag]

Memory of dates past is an area of human weakness. I have a good sized collection of sworn 1930s Borsalinos that are 1950s or later... only one is a possible candidate. It would be great to see photos of this hat - pre-war Borsos (save the Bulgarian ebay stash) seem to be quite rare.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

To be honest, I don't quite know how one would tell the actual age of a Borsalino with any accuracy. Style/model is a useless indicator for hats, as we know. (When I first joined here, for example, there were people who would fight you for suggesting that brims less than 2 1/4" existed before WWII.) The Borsalino label numbering system holds, I guess, for the newer but still vintage 60s/70s ones. There are ones with dates on sweatbands or dates written on boxes (slightly more dodgy - who knows where the box came from) but those are few and far between.

To be honest, for the reasons stated (^), I was never convinced by the accuracy of dating on the Bulgarian ones either …

 

[mayserwegener]

I have run into similar situations regarding sellers and dating. I have 4 that are 1930s or very early 1940s. One is a Bulgarian and the other three are Echter Borsalinos. All have the Borsalino name on the side of the paper label. Parts and construction methods are also very similar.

Echter Borsalino mid to late 1930s

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Nice one. :eusa_clap Is that one where dating info was provided by the seller? If not, how did you determine the date accurately?

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks! Actually this hat belonged to a lady's father that died at the end of WWII. She said it was from the late 1920s but it has similar paper label (see the size added to the side), construction and sweatbands (finish) to some of the Bulgarian Borsalinos which are late 1930s very early 1940s.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Luckily for you guys I've taken pics of it recently in preparation for selling.

Here she is.

Thin edge binding. I'll get a close-up of the edge binding as it's a bit interestingly done. The brim is 2 3/4" and crown only 3 3/4". I've always thought this was a very French hat, Zazou-like.

The contentious label of the type that doesn't have Borsalino written on the left side. Anyone seen a quality label like the one on the right here? I can't read what quality it says, but the crown liner states Qualiá Superiore.