Dating borsalino liner logos

Discussion in 'Hats' started by gcollins, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. Tango Yankee

    Tango Yankee Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,434
    Location:
    Lucasville, OH
    Here's the liner from the Borsalino Thirty I've got. It's a bit different from the others shown so far.

    [​IMG]

    And that reminds me... I've seen references to other hats using the Ten, Fifteen, Twenty, Forty, and 100 designations (Stetson, Resistol, Knox, etc.) to match their price but this is the first Borsalino I recall coming across or hearing about that used it. Under the sweatband there's a price tag for $30.

    [​IMG]

    On a tag under the sweatband there's a couple of numbers. On the left 1776, then on the right side on the same level 53025. I suppose that one of these (likely the one on the right) is the serial number, but have no idea what the other on is. Below the serial number is stamped what looks like "GORASOD" but I have no idea what that means or refers to.

    It's got the fabric size tag, but the tag just has the size number on it; nothing else.

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    Some other photos. This is the hat I showed myself wearing a few weeks ago, the black Borsalino size 7 1/2.

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    The felt is very soft, velour-like, and very pliable.

    Any guesses on it's age? My guess is late 40s, early 50s. If the serial-number thing has any validity to it I suppose it's a 53. But with the 5 3/4" open crown and 2 3/4" brim I dunno. Thoughts?

    I wish it fit! I guess I'll have to make due with a not-quite-as-nice Knox Fifteen Tuxedo. :eusa_doh:

    Regards,
    Tom
     
  2. jimmy the lid

    jimmy the lid I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
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    Location:
    USA
    Does anyone know when Borsalino started using the small rectangular size tags like the one in this lid?

    [​IMG]


    Cheers,
    JtL
     
  3. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

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    Kansas
    An older brown and cream colored paper tag

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    The silver hat has a sweatband 2 1/16" wide. The black hat is 2" wide. It retailed at The B.R. Baker Co. CLEVELAND.
     
  4. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

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    A newer Borsalino brown and cream paper tag

    [​IMG][​IMG]
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    This is a newer paper size tag. Also the long oval tag is used on a number of manufacturers hats. There were Adams that johnny phi sold that had this very same tag. I have also seen on ebay two other manufactures that also used that same tag, I wished I would have written them down. One I believe was a Garland TX make. The sweatband is 1 3/4" wide and the bows are different too. The corrugated front has also been eliminated.
     
  5. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Kansas
    Borsalino Leo

    [​IMG][​IMG]
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    A valour finish so soft it makes a baby's butt fell like sandpaper.
    The history on the box says Dad's black Borsalino, then "was" was added as well as Bill's on Easter 4/7/85. So dad got it sometime before that.
     
  6. carter

    carter I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    This is an Alessandria that I have posted in the Borsalino Brotherhood thread. Both Joe Peters and Jimmy Pierce believe the hat to date from the late 1920's to the early 1930's. There is no size tag or number series on the original sweatband.

    This fragile stamp affixed to the body beneath the sweatband has "Borsalino" above "Grand Prix Paris 1900" on the left side (verticle). The horizontal reads "31P" with the word "AVORTO" below.
    [​IMG]

    The stamp affixed to the reverse of the sweatband in the front reads "The May Company" above what appears to be "2W" and below what appears to be "17". The rest is faded from view.
    [​IMG]

    The hat was sold by the May Company which was founded in 1877.
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    The sweatband is stamped "Grand Prix Paris 1900" and "Original House". The sweatband is extremely fragile and has been replaced in the hat.
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    These are front and reverse views of the sweatband seam.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    This is the sewn-in silk liner.
    [​IMG]

    This is the hat.
    [​IMG]

    There are a number of opinions regarding the age of this hat. Some are based on style. However, in Men's Hats - Il Cappello Da Uomo by Adele Campione (the Bella Casa Library, Chronicle Books, 1995), there is a a tall-crowned, wide-brimmed fedora pictured on page 24 as a favorite of 1901. There are other fedoras with wide brims and varying crown heights on pages; 43 (1920), 51 (1923), 55 (1928), etc. None of the hats pictured has a narrow ribbon or a bound edge. The point to be made is that tall crowns and wide brims certainly existed during the period.
    The book also states that, "As early as 1900, Borsalino was already exporting three hats abroad for every two sold in Italy". No surprise there.

    My question is, can some of our most knowledgable members (BK, Besdor, ?) lend their knowledge/expertise to the probable dating of this hat?
     
  7. CigarMan

    CigarMan One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    Sorry to revive an old thread, but I have a question about a Borsalino I bought, I noticed that on the front of the hat, the sweatband is separated from the felt. Much like in Tango Yankee's picture here . . .is that a good thing or a bad thing?

     
  8. Lefty

    Lefty I'll Lock Up

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    It's typical borso sweat design. Cushioned for comfort or better fit or just the sake of doing it.
     
  9. billyspew

    billyspew One Too Many

    That corrugation is deliberate... think it's designed to keep the sweat away from the felt.
     
  10. CigarMan

    CigarMan One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    237
    Location:
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    ok, I assumed that's what it was for, whew! For minute there I thought that the sweatband was tearing away from the felt.
     
  11. ScottF

    ScottF Call Me a Cab

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    Unlined Borsalino

    I haven't seen any vintage unlined Borsalinos, and this didn't get any responses in the ebay thread, so thought I'd put it here as well. I thought the paper label in the inside of the hat was unique, at least from what I've found digging through Borso threads here. Thoughts?

     
  12. Tango Yankee

    Tango Yankee Call Me a Cab

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    That's what I thought when I first saw one!lol
     
  13. ScottF

    ScottF Call Me a Cab

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    Okay, point-blank question then: Have ANY of you vintage Borsalino collectors ever seen a vintage unlined Borsalino with a tag like the above attached to the inside of the hat?
     
  14. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

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    Yes, unlined Borsalinos are not that uncommon. Check ebay today.
     
  15. ScottF

    ScottF Call Me a Cab

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    Really? Vintage unlined Borsos are common?

    Please post some pics or links to prior auctions. All I have seen on ebay auctions are lined Borsos, or Borso that are missing their liners.

    I very much appreciate the response - thanks Vic.
     
  16. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

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    I do not keep ebay photos. I do look at every Borsalino that sells on ebay, and have done so for many years.
     
  17. ScottF

    ScottF Call Me a Cab

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    Thanks Vic. I'm finding that I tend to be interested in topics that are probably boring to others, but I'm a history nut, so I'll keep digging.
     
  18. Bird Lives

    Bird Lives A-List Customer

    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    Issaquah, WA
    My new vintage Borsalino's logo matches no.4 from page 1 only it has the yellowed oil skin oval window over the logo in the crown ...

    The logo is gold on Blue and says:Qualita Superiore....then the Borsalino crest( the crest looks like no. 4 on page 1 of the Dating your Borsalino by the logo thread), ...then, Alessandria...(Italia)Marca Depositata.
    Thats it...nothing else on the lining...

    The serial no is:T5588 83467 60cm
    There in no english writting anywhere on the hat...

    So what do you think? The felt is unbelievably soft and easy to dry crease...
    and the lining is sown in the hat
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  19. novice

    novice New in Town

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Oregon
    Hi, this is my first post. The pictures on my Flickr page are from the interior of a Borsalino that I was fortunate enough to find in a local thrift store. My photo skills are lousy, so I didn't even try to get a picture of the hat itself, which is a grey homburg, in great shape, except for one dark pinpoint stain on the top of the crown. According to the possible serial number dating scheme previously mentioned, it could be from 1934. The hat was originally my size, but had shrunk over the years, so I arranged to take it out to show it to Art Fawcett outside of Butte Falls, since I am in southern Oregon, to see if he could re-size it. That was an extremely enjoyable and fascinating visit - Mr. Fawcett was very generous with his time and knowledge - and I enjoyed it just as much when I got to talk to him again when I went back to pick up the hat. The thread attaching the sweatband to the hat had rotted, so he had to replace the sweatband, after resizing the hat. Unfortunately, I managed to lose the paper tag with the serial number, and never got a picture of that. My apologies. The number started with '34' but I did not record the rest of the numbers. I wanted to show the liner/label, and since the original sweatband is now off the hat, I thought it might be useful to show photos not only of all of the sweatband 'stamps', but the backside detail of the sweatband, including the 'tape' joining the ends of the sweatband together. The final 2 photos on the page are of some high-quality led modules for a flashlight forum.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/87163211@N04/
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  20. The number system for dating older Borsalinos is long-since discredited, i'm afraid.
     

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