Do you really want them "Waterproof"?

[fedoralover]

Hey guys, do you really want to use a waterproofing type of application on leather jackets? Seems to me it would be akin to wearing vinyl, but I'm not an expert in this field so please let me know if something like mink oil should be used on a jacket. I had previously heard that you should not, but instead use Pecards or Lexol which doesn't waterproof but conditions and preserves.

Any advice would be appreciated as I'm looking at a jacket that a biker put up for sale and he said he used mink oil on it to waterproof it. It is horsehide.

much thanks fedoralover

 

[Bebop]

I agree that it seems to be like wearing vinyl to completely waterproof a leather jacket. I have used mink oil on boots to make them softer but it also leaves a tacky residue that I don't really like. I use mink oil sparingly because it seems to break down the leather and soften it too much for my taste. I would not use it on a jacket. I have used Lexol and the standard run of the mill "leather conditioner" from Wilson's Leather and conditioning seems to be better for me than waterproofing.

 

[Rinterstate]

Waterproofing

Correct me if i'm wrong but horsehide is a naturally waterproofed leather. I know my horsehide A2 is waterproofed with nothing on it. I suppose you could use a conditioner on it. But it shouldn't need any type of waterproofing.

Randy

 

[Hemingway Jones]

There is a wealth of information available at Pecard's website: http://www.pecard.com/

 

[rick5150]

Horsehide is always touted as being waterproof. There is a technique for aging horsehide jackets where you wet the leather with hot water. This tells me there is a flaw in the "waterproof" theory. Maybe highly water resistent, but not waterproof. The conditioner would not be able to penetrate either.

I have read that as a skin, leather must breathe to let the acids and salts in sweat to dissipate. I have no problem believing that the dye or other coatings applied to the surface make horsehide more impervious to water due to the tighter grain, but I find it very difficult to believe that a horse is waterproof. Otherwise they would live in the ocean.

A conditioner would coat the fibers and lubricate them preventing damage while still allowing the leather to breathe. Be careful of applying any oil-based product if you live in a cold climate. Often they will congeal leaving a white film on the leather. Treat leather like you would your own skin.

Be wary of Neatsfoot oil, saddle soap, etc. Actually there are good and bad things about every leather treatment. The use of to much oil or wax, however, can clog pores. When this happens, leather loses it's ability to allow air in and moisture out. Even worse, oils and waxes attract dirt and dust particles which actually cut the microscopic fibers that make leather so strong and durable.

 

[Twitch]

No leather jacket I've owned in the past had chemical treatment. Unless you are standing in rain all day how is it going to hurt the coat? Conditioners like you'd use on a car's leather seats aren't goint to hurt but aren't going to make you able to repell more water either.

 

[Rinterstate]

I have a horsehide A2 which I did the hot water treatment on. The hot water gets to the hide from the underneath side or inside of the coat. the non finished side thats how the leather gets wet. But I've had my A2 on all day in the rain and it never soak through from the outside.
Cheers

 

[Tim P]

they should be water repellant whih leather naturally is
but if they are waterproof you will seem to sweat more (this is just the fabric not breathing, you are only sweating as much).

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Not necessary

The maker of my horsehide A2 specifically said that no special water proofing or any type of so-called leather conditioning treatments were needed. In fact they are dead set against any such treatment, as the leather itself is naturally water repellant. Exposure to an ocasional rain shower will not harm your jacket.

 

[Baggers]

I think we need to define our terms better.

WATERPROOF means that no moisture can pass through the material, either water droplets (rain) or water vapor (sweat). Early waterproof garments weren't made from leather, they were made of either oilskin or (later) rubber coated fabrics. The downside is that any of these fabrics get very uncomfortable in warm and humid weather due to the fact that they do not breathe, or allow water vapor to pass through the material (think modern goretex).

WATER REPLELLANT materials will repel rain or other forms of liquid moisture only for so long. That is, until the material finally absorbs more water than it can hold and starts passing it though to the other side. Some fabrics, like cotton ventile, are very tightly woven and meant to take on just enough moisture so that the fabric fibers swell and close off making the garment essentially waterproof. But that effect is only temporary. Eventually the fabric will be soaked and pass the excess moisture through to the other side. Of course, the upside of this is that the material breathes and as such is much more comfortable in warmer conditions.

It's my belief that horsehide, or any other leather is only WATER REPELLANT. If it were really waterproof, why were there no leather raincoats? Why the quest for a truly waterproof material that led to the development of oilskins and later vulcanized rubber coated fabrics? For example, if you go splashing through puddles for a long enough period of time in your leather shoes, won't they get soaked through? The same goes for your leather jacket. If you get caught in the rain, it will repel water for a while. But if you stay out in the downpour for too long it will finally get soaked through.

Pardon my sounding a bit pedantic this morning, but I thought it might be useful.

Cheers!

 

[Rinterstate]

I'v'e been out in mighty a thunderstorm in both my goat and horsehide A2 and the goat is water repellant up to a point then starts soaking in, but not with my horsehide the water sits on top of the leather and doesn' t soak in
like with the goatskin A2. Interesting side note there was a manufacturer of
A2's during WWII and the name of the company was The Cable Raincoat Co.
My 2 cents worth.

 

[Baggers]

I'v'e been out in mighty a thunderstorm in both my goat and horsehide A2 and the goat is water repellant up to a point then starts soaking in, but not with my horsehide the water sits on top of the leather and doesn' t soak in
like with the goatskin A2. Interesting side note there was a manufacturer of
A2's during WWII and the name of the company was The Cable Raincoat Co.
My 2 cents worth.

Okay, but could it be that you just didn't stay out long enough for the horsehide to start soaking through? It may just be that goat and horse have different rates at which they take on water. Were both jackets equal with regards to age, wear, tanning methods, top coatings, etc? As it stands, there's just not enough information for it to be a valid example. Bottom line, different hides may get waterlogged faster than others, depending on how they're finished.

And the fact that Cable Raincoat made A-2s during the war doesn't really mean anything except that they were a garment manufacturer with the machinery and expertise for handling heavy fabrics and other materials. They may never have produced one leather jacket prior to getting that war contract. A lot of companies made items for the war effort outside of their prewar range of products. IBM and Rockola are the first to come to mind.

Cheers!

 

[Rinterstate]

My whole intent of wearing my horsehide out in the rain was specially to see if in fact horsehide was waterproof as claimed and it was. I was in the rain for over hour, not drizzle mind you but rain. And it held up fine, the goat soaked through in 10 minutes.
Baggers, do you have a horsehide jacket that you could possible try wearing it in rain ? Try you own test.
Anyone else ever have horsehide jacket that got soaked though from the outside in. I would be interested to hear others experiences with this.

 

[Baggers]

Yes, I have two at present. I have a G&B A-2 and an Aero Barnstormer. The Barnstormer is in their medium weight hide. I also have a Cossack on order from Aero in midweight, hopefully it will be shipping in the next few days. The ones I have are all rather new, however, the oldest being 5 months. I'd be happy to try a test, but who knows when it will happen because we're in the middle of the worst drought this state has seen since the 1950s. I may be heading up to Seattle for a couple of days in March, maybe I can "wring" one of them out up there if the weather doesn't cooperate here in Texas!

I'd really be interested in settling this question myself.

Cheers!

 

[Rinterstate]

I would be interested in knowing if you have any luck in your testing. Oh how do you like the Aero Barnstormer, I like those jackets!
Sorry to hear about your drought in Texas. But I always heard Seattle was a wet place. Please let me know what you find out.

Cheers

 

[falcodriver]

l. Interesting side note there was a manufacturer of
A2's during WWII and the name of the company was The Cable Raincoat Co.
My 2 cents worth.

They also had a contract for B-3 jackets, certainly no raincoat!


Hacker

 

[JWG]

Interestingly enough the majority of the Cable examples found are goatskin--yes some horsehide but numerous goatskins.

I have found the goatskins to be more waterproof for what it's worth.

 

[Rinterstate]

But has anyone used Pecards on a goatskin A-2 for waterproofing? I would be interested in knowing how it turned out.