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dog fur coats at Macys.

MrBern

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:eek:fftopic: clubbings

:eek:fftopic:
You cant be too surprised that this animal cruelty would come from China...
Does anyone recall the news story last year about an outbreak of rabies in China.
Something like 50,000 dogs were killed. Many clubbed to death on the street in front of their owners.
And some already had their innoculations!


10china.xlarge1.jpg


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/10/world/asia/10china.html?ex=1168664400&en=f7eec6f9a39111e3&ei=5070

NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE
By HOWARD W. FRENCH
Published: August 10, 2006
SHANGHAI, Aug. 9 — It was late last month, the boy said, his voice still tinged with emotion, when he and his father were forced to march their two German shepherds to a public square and hang them from a tree.

The boy, Xia Shaoli, was not alone in his pain. Officials in Mouding County in southwestern Yunnan Province had ordered the mass extermination of dogs, pets as well as strays, after three people died in a rabies outbreak. And as a crowd gathered around a large tree in the village of Xiajiashan, owners complied one after another with commands to string their dogs up.

According to official figures, 54,429 dogs were killed during the Yunnan campaign. Reports in the Chinese news media say that some people out walking their dogs had the animals seized by gangs of vigilantes, who clubbed the dogs to death on the spot.

The events in Yunnan have been quickly followed by rabies scares in other parts of China. On Wednesday, the Chinese news media reported the killings of 280 dogs in Wuxi, a city near Shanghai, and 13 in the city of Fuzhou in southern Fujian Province.

Earlier this week, a cluster of 16 villages in the southwestern part of Shandong Province declared a rabies alert, and county officials have drafted a dog extermination plan that would call for the killing of any dog found within a three-mile radius of any known rabies case.

There are half a million dogs in the city of Jining, which encompasses the 16 villages, the official New China News Agency says. Officials there said their extermination plan was scheduled to begin later this month. There have also been reports of smaller extermination schemes in other parts of the country, notably in Sichuan Province.

As remarkable as the killings themselves, however, has been the response. With its rising prosperity, China is developing a pet-owning culture, with dogs standing out as a particular favorite. As word of the killings has spread here, pet owners have begun to mobilize — speaking out online and circulating petitions — to try to stop the killings.

In fact, discussion of the issue has surpassed the bounds of a simple conversation about pets’ rights, with many commentators sharply questioning a system that could order the mass extermination of dogs, whether or not they are licensed and vaccinated. The reaction of groups and individuals, often through the Internet, also provides a striking illustration of the emergence of true public opinion in China, unmediated by the official press or censors.

“This is just another stupid decision by several foolish officials taken in a small room, totally unreflective of the people’s will,” said a comment on Mop, a current affairs forum.

Some drew comparisons with China’s human rights situation. “We don’t have human rights, let alone dog rights,” wrote a commentator going by the name of Kui Kui Xiang Ri, on the Tianya forum. “I’ve seen too much live abuse, let alone abuse of dogs. Anyway, it’s the local emperors who have their say, and we ordinary folks are not much different from dogs in their eyes.”

Chinese humane societies have announced plans to file lawsuits against local governments that mount extermination campaigns. “This kind of thing is just too terrible, too inhumane,” said Huang Juan, a leader of the Abandoned Pets Assistance Center, in Wuhan. “They did it without any real reason, since many of these dogs are vaccinated and cannot spread rabies. But how can you speak reason with these people?”

Another group, the China Small Animal Protection Association, said it would sue. “We are meeting with lawyers the day after tomorrow, and will go to court and bring charges against two local governments,” said Lu Di, the group’s director. “I will not just try to persuade, warn or criticize them — it’s too late for that. We will sue them to make them understand that this is not merely a moral issue, but a crime.”

On Wednesday, the Humane Society of the United States offered $100,000 to China to establish a program to control rabies in Jining, The Associated Press reported.

More broadly, others pointed out that the extermination campaigns contradict the guiding ideology of China’s current leaders, who constantly invoke the need to build a “harmonious society.”

Although the extermination programs are being widely denounced here, there is no doubting that rabies remains a severe problem in China. Nationwide, 961 people died of the disease in the first six months of the year, and last year, 2,545 people died. By contrast, rabies deaths in most Western countries are extremely rare.

Experts say the persistence of the disease reflects the breakdown of the rural health care system, once one of the proudest achievements of Chinese Communism. Many poor rural provinces view canine rabies vaccinations as a costly burden. Meanwhile, an oral vaccine, which is far easier to administer, is not imported, partly because of its cost.

“Many farmers are reluctant to get shots for their dogs, because it’s not always free, whereas the veterinary system at the township level has become very inadequate,” said Luo Tingrong, a rabies expert at Guangxi University. “There isn’t much investment into the system.”

China Plans a Rare-Animal Hunt

BEIJING, Aug. 9 (Reuters) — China plans to auction licenses to foreigners to hunt wild animals, including rare species, a newspaper said on Wednesday.

The government will auction the licenses based on the numbers in each category of animal, ranging from a starting price of $200 for a wolf, the only predator on the list, to as much as $40,000 for a yak, The Beijing Youth Daily said. There are believed to be fewer than 10,000 mature wild yak in the world.

The newspaper said the auction, on Sunday in Chengdu, capital of the southwestern province of Sichuan, would be a first for China.
 

MrBern

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wild canines

jamespowers said:
I remember some of those stories. Pretty far out there. Sorry you aren't going to touch my dog.
I was also wondering how easy it would be to get a racoon dog. Do they make good pets? Hmmmmm....;)

Regards,

J

I'm not sure if any wild animal makes a great pet, especially if u have kids.
I did notice that wikpedia listed them as not aggressive:

Raccoon Dogs are secretive and not very aggressive; they prefer to hide or scream rather than fight, and play dead to avoid predators. They are monogamous;

Sadly, Wikipedia does also note that the poor things are knocked silly then skinned alive in CHina.

Gosh, remember how sad the littl rascals would look when the dogcatchers would trap Pete?
"Pleeze Mister, dont take my dawg..."
Pete-Mary.jpg

Fly-my-kite-our-gang.jpg
 

HadleyH

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Such a growing economy China, why oh why, can't they change those hideous ways they have towards animals???
Anyway, if nobody else, karma will get them at the end, don't you worry ;)
 

MrBern

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HadleyH said:
Such a growing economy China, why oh why, can't they change those hideous ways they have towards animals???
Anyway, if nobody else, karma will get them at the end, don't you worry ;)

Animals? Now that theyre buying cars instead of bicycles, I've heard some nightmare traffic accident stories.
but those stories would be:eek:fftopic:

As for mislabelling, has anyone ever purchased an item that was labelled 100% cotton, but it pilled like a polyblend?
 

Dinerman

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MrBern said:
Gosh, remember how sad the littl rascals would look when the dogcatchers would trap Pete?
"Pleeze Mister, dont take my dawg..."
Pete-Mary.jpg

hey, that dog's burried in a very old funky pet cemetary about 10 minutes from my house.
 

GOK

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Section10 said:
Actually skinning an animal alive is something I've never heard of. I hesitate to doubt you, but perhaps the film was manipulated or the animals skinned that way simply for the sake of the film????? It would have to be done for a reason, but I can see no advantage to be gained by such a practice.

Ok for a start, this was filmed by people I know. It is not fake. I have a copy of it. I could show it to you if you want. And for another thing, I have seen the way these things have affected chums and acquaintances that have been involved in the investigations - they most certainly do not put it on. I've seen hardbitten men cry like babies over the things they have witnessed, so please, don't even think about suggesting to me that the films I have seen are faked merely because it suits you to believe it is so.

However, you are right, it is done for a reason - speed and profit. Why wait for an animal to die and its body to cool when you can do the job in half the time?

That said, I do find it difficult to say that all the people that do this are evil or cruel (though the chances are some may well be) because a) they are of a different cultural mindset to us and b) sometimes it's a case of do that job or starve. I do however, blame those in so-called civilised societies for giving them a reason to carry out these heinous practices.

Oh, and just so you know, in some parts of the world it is considered a delicacy in restuarants to have snakes first riled up by mongooses (mongeese?) - it is believed the adrenalin makes them more tasty - and then they are brought to the table and skinned alive in front of the customer. Not only do I know people that have seen this, Michael Palin even featured it on one of his travel shows.

Getting back on topic...wasn't P Diddy the guy with the polar bear coat? Why then is anyone surprised at the use of fur in his range of clothing? I must admit that when I first heard about this several months ago, I just thought it was pretty typical. [huh]
 

Feraud

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Keeping things on topic would save a lot of wasted space.
I never viewed this discussion as one about Combs' use of fur in his product. That is another subject worth discussing.

The only comment I made and had to fight tooth and nail to defend was his acknowledging of a problem and swift handling of it.

All of the how, whys, when, who knew what, is speculative and irrelevant to this story.

If a man cannot be given credit when credit is due, it says more about us than the fella we knock.
 

GOK

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As ever, Feraud, you are the voice of reason.

Whether he was or was not aware of the fur (and its origins) is possibly not as relevant as the way he dealt with the issue. Whether he did it out of genuine concern for animal welfare, public opinion or as an exercise in good PR is not really relevant - what counts is that he took action.

Veering slightly off topic (but essentially more of the same); I recently wrote to L'Oreal to ask if it had any plans to abandon animal testing in its products and to ascertain its views on using human volunteers to test said cosmetics. Not only did I receive a favourable reply, I was also sent a full sized pot of the latest moisturiser, a questionnaire and an invitation to trial the product. I thought that was a great response from a PR point of view.
 

Fatdutchman

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This is China, after all...not exactly a Utopia (though many folks would like to think it is...). "Hey, let's don't vaccinate the dogs...let's just kill them all"...real brilliant thinking.. especially when other animals like rats or other vermin are the real carriers of the disease. They don't care, though, since everything there is the property of the State. If you have anything, it is yours only because you were allowed this special privelege from the government...subject to revocation at any moment.

Note also that the special hunts are available only to foreigners, and not to their own people....

"Dogs occasionally carry rabies, therefore, kill all dogs." Can't argue with that rock solid logic...:rolleyes:
 

Section10

One of the Regulars
Skinning animals alive may indeed be happening, but it's advantages are inconsistent with my experience and I've got plenty. A freshly killed animal is neither faster or easier or cleaner to process then one that has cooled down. There is blood, urine and feces which gets all over the fur that is not there in a cooled carcasse. Also most animals have quite a bit of fatty tissue that adheres to the inside of the skin and when it is cool it is 10 times easier to get rid of.
I'm no more in favor of skinning live animals than you are, either morally or practically, but animal death is an industry that supports everyone's affluence and the entire structure of civilization either directly through slaughter or indirectly through habitat loss and it cannot be eliminated nor should it be. Cruelty is wrong but there are many forms of cruelty even by those whose lovingkindness closes their eyes to the reality of our relationship with other life.
 

scotrace

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OK folks, let's end the discussion of the details, advantages and disadvantages of the live skinning of animals at this point and get back to the premise of the thread.
 

Fatdutchman

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There's one form of cruelty that takes place in certain parts of the world that is little discussed. It is a most heinous and disgusting thing to witness...Cat juggling!:p


"I call it the Opti-Grab..."
 

BegintheBeguine

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Ok, the premise of the thread. I only brought up the skinning beauase the article cited mentioned it. As I was thinking about this, and re-thinking about this, I had the great idea: what if all the designers and promoters and endorsers stopped using animal fur? Yes, I am a girl who wears vintage fur but I will gladly stop if it would mean Sean or any other admirable fashion executive decided to stop using fur. To just stop. Wow. Then we wouldn't need this thread or anymore like it. You think? :) :) Could it happen? I think it could.
 

HadleyH

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BegintheBeguine said:
Ok, the premise of the thread. I only brought up the skinning beauase the article cited mentioned it. As I was thinking about this, and re-thinking about this, I had the great idea: what if all the designers and promoters and endorsers stopped using animal fur? Yes, I am a girl who wears vintage fur but I will gladly stop if it would mean Sean or any other admirable fashion executive decided to stop using fur. To just stop. Wow. Then we wouldn't need this thread or anymore like it. You think? :) :) Could it happen? I think it could.


Cool. Count me in.
 

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