Bama, thanks for your compliment & support. I appreciate that very much. No one likes to be ignored or talked down to. Especially when most everything posted in this thread, starting with the OP has been opinions except for the physics that come into play. And the thread got OT from the OP pretty quick. My entering this thread was not to defend or denigrate Engel & Co or other hat makers, what they charge, or anyone posting opinions here. I wanted to point out that it is my opinion that the word "custom" is over used & gets thrown around a little too much. What is custom about a hat ordered from a small shop made in standard colors on a standard sized hat block? What makes that hat custom compared to the one in the Stetson outlet store? If I order a new Stetson Premier Stratoliner because no one has one in stock & wait 6 wks or more to get it, does that make it a custom hat? Of course not. That's how I came to use the phrase "made to measure" from the boot collectors world to denote what custom means to me and apply it to hats. That doesn't mean I don't order hats from time to time made in my large size; I just don't consider them custom when they are just made to order. I happen to like the fact that I can order a clone of a 1940's Whippet for example, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it a custom. I was attempting to lay that out in my first post with the 3 levels of product & service as I see it. And that each level should be priced accordingly but ultimately pricing is whatever the market will bear.