EXTREME Renovation Question...

[gtdean48]

I found an old hat of my grandfather's. He wore a 7 3/8 which is what my brother wears. The hat is extremely faded & would need to be an inside out job that I read about on here somewhere. The issue is a "3/8" written in some sort of marker on the inside which would be come the outside. Would the acid bath that some renovations detail be able to remove this?
I'd like to restore it & if it can go to a 7 1/2 long oval, keep it or give it to my brother if not. Hope any of the talented hatters here can shed some light on this. TIA gtd

 

[tonyb]

Any idea at all of what was used to make that mark? And, how far up the crown does it extend? (In other words, could it be covered by a ribbon?)

What kind of brim edge does it have? Is the felt worn thin at the pinch?

Upsizing that much shouldn't be too great a challenge.

 

[gtdean48]

Looks like a felt tipped pen, Sharppies weren't common back then, Grandpa has been gone since 1981.
It is way up the crown = no way to hide with even a wide band.
Brim edge is rolled under & stitched
Felt seems good at the pinch but seems thinner near back of center dent.
There is some glue where lining (no longer there) was held in.
Inside is a lot rougher than outside so I'm guessing sanding is needed & that could address the writing.
Thanks for the reply... gtd

 

[Art Fawcett]

Before you go too far with it GT, try to get the markings out first. Try alcohol, lighter fluid, etc till it comes out. Once you get that mark out the rest is basic finishing techniques. You'll end up with an overwelt ( if it's under now) but it's all good.

 

[RBH]

Before you go too far with it GT, try to get the markings out first. Try alcohol, lighter fluid, etc till it comes out. Once you get that mark out the rest is basic finishing techniques. You'll end up with an overwelt ( if it's under now) but it's all good.

Art, do you think naptha would get it out?
I have gotten alot of stains out with it, but I have never had a ink stain.

 

[gtdean48]

Before you go too far with it GT, try to get the markings out first. Try alcohol, lighter fluid, etc till it comes out. Once you get that mark out the rest is basic finishing techniques. You'll end up with an overwelt ( if it's under now) but it's all good.

Many thanks Art. I'll see what I can do = have some lighter fluid handy for my Zippo. RBH mentioned naptha too. I'll see if I can source some this weekend. Should I be worried about effecting the color? This thing is badly faded from sun exposure = it sat in the back of my grandmother's car for a really long time... gtd

 

[Art Fawcett]

Naptha should be easy to find at a hardware store in the paint dept GT. It isn't the highest grade but will do.
The way I suggest approaching this project would be to start with the premise that you can't make it any worse, so let'r rip. Try lighter fluid, try naptha, heck, try ink remover if it's ink. Just do it in a methodical manner, meaning let it completely dry before deciding the next step.
If the marks come out for you, then you are going to be turning it inside out and reblocking that way ( thus the term extreme) so remember the fading will show up in the brim ( underside).

Lets see where you can get with it , report back in ( with pics please) and between TonyB, myself, & others here we should be able to get you through it.

 

[gtdean48]

MANY thanks again Art & you are so right = it can't go any way but up! This is such a great place. Happy New Year to all the Loungers! gtd

 

[DerMann]

Just curious, and slightly off topic, but isn't naptha lighter fluid? I was under the impression that the fuel used by Ziippos and other old style wick lighters was traditionally naptha.

 

[tonyb]

Just curious, and slightly off topic, but isn't naptha lighter fluid? I was under the impression that the fuel used by Ziippos and other old style wick lighters was traditionally naptha.

Man, don't I wish I knew the answer to that one. (I must have been out in the parking lot, smoking cigarettes, when they covered this stuff in school.)

I recall someone once saying that Coleman camp fuel and naphtha are essentially the same thing, but having used both for cleaning hats, I kinda doubt that. They certainly don't smell alike, and, in my experience, naphtha seems the more effective cleaning solvent. But, you know, you can't take that to the bank.

The Ermatinger book (the "Scientific" hatter's guide, first published back in the 'teens) recommends gasoline, but others here have offered that the gasoline used back then differs significantly from what we use today, mostly in that the modern stuff has a bunch of additives. I've yet to use unleaded from the pump, but I just may, on a beater hat (as Art says, "you can't make it any worse"), just to satisfy my own curiosity. I doubt it will do any actual harm (knock on wood), and at something less than two bucks a gallon (for now), it's a whole heck of lot less expensive than naphtha, or Coleman fuel, for that matter.

 

[glazierman]

I have a vintage stetson straw fedora.

The sweat band is broken and damaged to the point of needing to being replaced. Are there any good shops in the Portland OR area that could do the repairs? Or am I better off to send it somewhere? Also how much should I expect to have to spend for the repair? Thanks

 

[gtdean48]

Thanks Glazier for the tips. I have plenty of Coleman fuel for the lanterns & stoves for camping. We always call it "white gas" = thought it was comparable to really clean, high test gasoline. I know guys that have used it in autos to get to the next station!
How would any of you apply the lighter fluid/naptha to the hat? ...by rag, sponge...dab, rub, blot??? TIA gtd

 

[Art Fawcett]

I'm with you there Tony, I dunno either on the lighter fluid, I just know it's brutal stuff.

glazierman, there used to be a fellow named Paul...something..can't remember his last name, in Portland. Try calling the John Helmer store or John at Avalon to see if they know. I'm far enough removed to be out of the loop. I would consider a new sweat beyond the normal hobbiest but there are those that do it. If you were able to take it in to a shop is would be a $20-25 fix.

gtd, use rubber gloves and put it on a rag & wipe. Try not to soak it all the way through or you might have to do the entire hat to keep color consistent.

 

[Wil Tam]

found this because I neeed to know also...

Just curious, and slightly off topic, but isn't naptha lighter fluid? I was under the impression that the fuel used by Ziippos and other old style wick lighters was traditionally naptha.

I learned that gasoline & kerosene is technically considered to be in the same category as naphtha... all are dangerous to use IMO especially since I live in an apartment without access to a backyard or outdoor garage, which is highly recommended if you are to use a large quantity... IE; a metal bucket that your hat will fit into... [I read that if you do spot treatments the dye will run thus leaving your lid splotchy] so you would need to leave your hat in a container that is filled with the flammable liquid so that the color will be even at the end.

Naphtha

I may have found a better option for my uses, what do you think?

----------------
Now playing: Hot Chocolate - You Sexy Thing
via FoxyTunes

 

[tonyb]

I learned that gasoline & kerosene is technically considered to be in the same category as naphtha... all are dangerous to use IMO especially since I live in an apartment without access to a backyard or outdoor garage, which is highly recommended if you are to use a large quantity... IE; a metal bucket that your hat will fit into... [I read that if you do spot treatments the dye will run thus leaving your lid splotchy] so you would need to leave your hat in a container that is filled with the flammable liquid so that the color will be even at the end.

Naphtha

I may have found a better option for my uses, what do you think?

Yes, Wil, the stuff is flammable and toxic so precautions really must be taken. We've gone over this many times before but it is always worth repeating. Any mention of these solvents warrants that caveat, for sure.

As to the Fels Naphtha bar soap ... I've never used it on a hat, but I'm always looking for other, perhaps better, ways to make those old lids look as much like new as I can. I have used other water solutions, to little if any deleterious effect, so I doubt you'd do any harm by it. Should you give it a go, please do report back.

 

[carouselvic]

White gas was the same as reg. gas before they added lead to boost the octane. Unleaded gas of today has detergents and other additives. Gas, kerosene and naptha all have very different evaporation rates. Thirty+ years ago I used a product called Imperial Cleaner to clean my felt hat. It is still available here in the mid-west. Most grocery stores carried it. (it is not all that much different than lighter fluid or charcoal starter...IMHO) http://www.terracepackaging.com/16.html

 

[gtdean48]

gtd, use rubber gloves and put it on a rag & wipe. Try not to soak it all the way through or you might have to do the entire hat to keep color consistent.

Gotcha Art. Thanks again & to all the others that added helpful hints. I'll probably be set up to try something tomorrow & report back... gtd

 

[glazierman]

glazierman, there used to be a fellow named Paul...something..can't remember his last name, in Portland. Try calling the John Helmer store or John at Avalon to see if they know. I'm far enough removed to be out of the loop. I would consider a new sweat beyond the normal hobbiest but there are those that do it. If you were able to take it in to a shop is would be a $20-25 fix.

Thanks for the info Art . Is Avalon a shop in Portland?

 

[Art Fawcett]

yup glazierman, its a vintage clothing shop downtown. I just met John a few weeks ago, nice guy.

 

[gtdean48]

Almost forgot...

I used lighter fluid on what looks like felt tip pen writing on the inside of my grandfather's old hat. All of it came out except for where it looks like the pen was initial placed down to start writing & that is faint now. The inside has not been sanded as the outside. In an inside out renovation, is it normal to sand down the new exposed felt? Also, any recommendations about removing glue residue from where the liner used to be attached? Thanks again for all the helpful pointers...