Fedora special! Horween X Vanson

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by red devil, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. Guppy

    Guppy My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,016
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    I can't dispute the variance over time claim without access to a lot more data, so for sake argument I'll concede that leather varies. But I can point to vanson's website which specifies the thickness in mm, and compare it to actual measurements of their jackets, and see that things don't add up. I mean, I can feel it with my fingers, i don't really need to measure it with a tool. As for changing back, it might happen on its own, like the tides going in and out, but I have to think that customers talking about it will only help.
     
  2. red devil

    red devil One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,819
    Location:
    London
    So I do not own an Aero jacket (although I have handled a few) or Vanson (only handled one).

    But saying that CXL only comes out good with Aero? That is excessive. My Johnson Leather jacket is made from burgundy HH CXL, and it is very well made.

    I am also pretty sure that the other makers we favour here could make something spectacular with CXL.

    Keeping this in mind and that Vanson is very well regarded here, I highly doubt they would make anything inferior to Aero in Horween.
     
    ton312 and Mich486 like this.
  3. El Marro

    El Marro One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,723
    Location:
    California
    I am very happy with everything about my Vanson Commando and I reject the assertion that Vanson no longer makes a top tier leather jacket.
     
  4. Mich486

    Mich486 Practically Family

    Messages:
    932
    Every jacket maker discussed here can make stuff in CXL to a standard similar to Aero. I’m pretty sure of that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    El Marro, ton312 and Guppy like this.
  5. Psant25

    Psant25 Practically Family

    Messages:
    583
    Is that x150 or z150 leather do you know?
     
  6. Guppy

    Guppy My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,016
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    The Vanson x Left Field Commando is a special edition, isn't it? I'm not sure it makes for the best comparison.

    I wouldn't say that Vanson doesn't make a top tier jacket, at all, but in comparing their current leather they market as "comp weight leather" it does seem to me that it is thinner stuff than what they used to market as "comp weight leather". The old comp weight, I liked quite a bit, the new stuff is "ok".

    Whether it is thick enough or not for a slide on the asphalt, I can't say without destructive testing. I'd pray that the new stuff is, I had no doubt about the old stuff.

    What I can say is that all of the recently manufactured Vansons that I've handled personally that were made with "comp weight" leather have felt thin to me.

    That includes:
    • a Model F,
    • a CHP, and
    • a Union Garage x Vanson V7.
    The V7 is a great jacket, and I don't mind it being lighter weight leather due to the included D3O armor. But if it was the old comp weight, I'd like it better. The Model F was a bit long on me, so I sold it, but it too was a well made jacket, just not as thick as the older brown Model F that I had. The CHP is a great jacket, but I have so many CHPs from Cal and Langlitz that I don't honestly need it, so it's on my pile of "jackets to sell", and the primary reason is that the leather it is made from doesn't hold a candle to the Cal or Langlitz.

    I also own Ton's Gambler, which IIRC is made from Vanson's Z150, which is supposed to be a lighter weight leather, and to me it feels exactly like the "comp weight" jackets I mentioned above. If I still had the jackets mentioned above, I'd weigh them and compare to my older Vansons. My C2 is made from the Real Comp Weight (according to me) and the FQHH Enfield that I bought recently from technovox earlier this year is awesome although, being HH it's by definition not Comp Weight™, but it's comparable in weight to what I regard to be the True Comp Weight. My MK2 Pro Perf is also decently thick, perhaps not quite so thick as my heaviest vansons, but still thicker than this new stuff they're calling comp weight. And, oh yeah, my old Vanson Raider, made in the early 80s to the best of my ability to determine, is good, thick and heavy comp weight.

    Ding dang do I own a lot of jackets. Lol.

    I don't know if Vanson made older jackets in "comp weight" that was as thin as this stuff they're selling now. Could be they did, and I just can't tell because there's no label, so anything I handle that feels thin, I would presume to be X150, Z150, or one of their other hides.

    I wasn't the person who said that originally, but I agreed with it. Not because Vanson isn't capable, but because of the level of service that you get from Aero, compared to what I hear about the customer service you get from Vanson. Not that Vanson has a bad record, but they're not quite at the level of Aero in that regard. And, especially when you consider that for an Aero jacket you're getting Horween CXL as their "basic" leather, no upcharge, no having to source it yourself, and you're dealing with a company that has decades of experience in selecting the finest quality hides, whereas if you're ordering direct from Horween and shipping to Vanson, who knows what they will pick for you, it'll be whatever they feel fills the bill, and not some hand-picked best of the best. And then you still have to deal with Vanson's upcharges for custom work, no returns on custom work policy, etc. And, well, how can you compare that as anything but less than favorable next to the sort of service you get from Aero?

    Nothing against Vanson, but other than the fact that Aero simply doesn't own or make jackets using Vanson's patterns, I would see no reason to go with Vanson supplying your own Horween leather to have them make a jacket when you can go to Aero, who has it, has a history of working with it all the time, and getting them to make what you want.

    Johnson in SF also works with Horween CXL regularly, and will do full custom work to your exact spec and design if you want them to, and from what I see are every bit as good as Vanson as well, and probably easier to work with.

    In short, if you absolutely will only be happy with a Vanson-made, Vanson pattern jacket, and you absolutely have to have it in Horween CXL, and money's no object, then I can't recommend against it. If on the other hand you have a dollar figure in your head and want the best CXL jacket you can get custom made, I'd agree with the original poster that the experience you have in getting said jacket made in the end will likely be better if you go through Aero, provided that you'll be happy with getting a jacket in a pattern that Aero is willing to make for you. If you're not, then definitely consider Johnson.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  7. Hh121

    Hh121 One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,643
    Thanks for your input, it's basically what's in my mind.
     
    Guppy likes this.
  8. Bfd70

    Bfd70 One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Chicago
    Members here flip jackets too quickly to buy a $1200 Vanson. The only resale market will be other TFL members....which is ok for the 42-44 crowd. Otherwise no one on fleabay will care about CXL vs comp weight for 1/2 the price.
     
  9. Psant25

    Psant25 Practically Family

    Messages:
    583
    Pics of thurstons stock vansons in comp weight look pretty good. She has handled that leather for many years wonder what her opinion is. Anyone talked to carrie about it?
     
    roadking04 likes this.
  10. JMax

    JMax Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,615
    I don’t want to speak for Carrie but...lol...but I recall her mentioning a typical variance throughout the history of Vanson’s CW. Different tanneries, different batches, etc. led to it.
     
    roadking04, Hh121 and ton312 like this.
  11. ton312

    ton312 I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    9,257
    Location:
    Chicago
    ^ yup. I’ve had dozens of Vansons and I dare say no two ever shared the same hide. I think the difference now is the extreme changes vs the relatively mild changes of maybe pre-2016ish.
     
    Psant25, Guppy and JMax like this.
  12. roadking04

    roadking04 A-List Customer

    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    The Rock 'n Roll Capital
    Aero makes some great LOOKING m/c jackets. I don't think Aero m/c jackets are very FUNCTUAL for actual m/c use.

    Vanson definitely makes FUNCTUAL m/c jackets, no questions there. But it is hard to have a bad ass motorcycle jacket made out of "couch" leather.

    Would you trust Aero's dainty main zip in a serious slide? I hope we never have to find out.
     
  13. Guppy

    Guppy My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,016
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    I would like to add: I'd be enthusiastic if Vanson decided to get into CXL as an option, particularly if they used 3.5-4.0oz. steer.
     
    Psant25, Hh121 and roadking04 like this.
  14. El Marro

    El Marro One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,723
    Location:
    California
    That is exactly what she said to me when I queried her about recent Comp. weight leather last year.
     
  15. El Marro

    El Marro One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,723
    Location:
    California
    It is the X150 leather.
     
    Psant25 likes this.
  16. navetsea

    navetsea My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,146
    Location:
    East Java
    Maybe comp weight leather means they are just proven with test for tensile strength and abrasive resistance for riding purpose not necessarily its thickness, maybe cows have thinner skin now due to climate change or their modernized farm lifestyle:)
     
    patrick_b likes this.
  17. Guppy

    Guppy My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,016
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH

    https://vansonleathers.com/content/57-about-our-leather

    "Vanson Competition Weight Cowhide is 1.5 mm thick, polished and waxed by hand to bring out its unique characteristics, after which the leather receives a topcoat . This proprietary process results in a smooth, stiff feel and a good shine with high abrasion resistance. This product is meticulously hand-crafted and requires numerous steps to produce. It is extremely strong and gives our products that characteristic look and longevity that Vanson is so well known for."​

    It's easy (with the right tools) to measure and confirm whether a given jacket is made from 1.5mm thick leather or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    navetsea likes this.
  18. navetsea

    navetsea My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,146
    Location:
    East Java
    1.5mm is not thick for cow, maybe that is the thinnest of the possibilities, 1.8mm -2mm is thick to me, if the sleeve triangle gusset is one layer you can check there. or check the folded sleeve end and 1/2 the measurement.
     
    Hh121 and Guppy like this.
  19. SinSir

    SinSir One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    289
    I handled several new Vanson Choppers less than a month ago in comp weight, and I wouldn't complain about the hide of any of them. All were as expected, thick, heavy, and stiff. I don't know when they were made or from what batch. I didn't have calipers or a scale so take it for what its worth, my opinion but all were quality jackets. YMMV
     
    Psant25 likes this.
  20. SinSir

    SinSir One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    289
    For reference only

    Screenshot_20191205-210531_Gallery.jpg
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.