Firemans Helmet

[moonlight]

How do you date them? I've got one of the traditional leather ones... would like to know more.

 

[Mike K.]

Well, since they still make leather ones today it would be much more helpful to post some photos of your helmet.

 

[Justdog]

Fire Helmet

How do you date them? I've got one of the traditional leather ones... would like to know more.

Please post a picture if possible.

 

[kpreed]

A bunch of folks can help you here. I have a lot of old fire helmets (most before WWII). But as said before, a photo is needed!

 

[cooper]

If the inside medallian says Clifton NJ it's probably fifties to present. If it says New York, it is an older one.Don't quote me on this but I believe they moved to New Jersey in the fifties. Old leather Cairns & Brother fire helmets command a high price these days. If you know the town you may research it that way if it has the firemans name inside. Whatever you do, don't clean it in any way other that dust it off. Like any antique, if you alter the original finish you can depreciate the value.

 

[Stan]

Hi,

I have several going back to 1880. The really old ones have dried out and shrunk.

The newest leather I have is a 1947 Cairns that I wore in-service when I first joined the FD in my old hometown back in 1977. I know it's a 1947 since that helmet was from the first batch when the FD was formed in 1947.

Yours looks exactly like mine, so maybe that helps date it some. I don't know how long that exact style was in production, though.

Later!

Stan

 

[Golden Earache]

One of the coolest moments in Gangs of New York is when the fire brigades come out, wearing some cool helmets. Where did the design of fire helmets originate from?

 

[Stan]

Hi,

They originated with FDNY, I think. At least the US style of them, anyway. The Cairns Brothers we refer to have made them seemingly forever, and they are *the* brand to have for most firefighters.

The traditional design is to use leather panels. Those ridges you see are the panel seams. The old ones have a canvas and string liner that suspends the hard hat away from your head. They're supposed to keep you from being knocked out if a beam falls on your head. The long curved rear part is to keep hot embers and hot water from running down the back of your turnout coat. I can attest to the fact that these things work pretty well, too.

The coats used to be made of canvas as well. The idea is to prevent hot water and steam from going through and scalding your skin. I still have one of the old canvas long coats and a pair of the high boots to go with the style of helmet pictured. My coat and boots are late 1960's, as is the composite helmet I have - later helmets were made from composite as well as leather, although the actual design didn't change.

Those were pulled out of service in 1980 for us, when we switched to carbon fiber helmets and carbon composite short boots with short coats and bunker pants made from Nomex. Now, the carbon fiber helmets are of a slightly different design and shape and don't look quite the same as the traditional design you see in the pictures here. The more modern stuff protects better, which is what you'd think.

I kept my old assigned service gear since they were just going to junk the stuff anyway. I'd worn it on enough calls that I couldn't just toss it into the trash.

Later!

Stan

 

[Eyemo]

First of all, I'm sorry for posting under Moonlights (My partners) Forum name:eusa_doh:

It's in fact me that has the Firemans Helmet....and here are some photographs of it..

Cheers

Seimon

 

[cooper]

Definately an older one. There are two styles, a Sam Houston and a New Yorker. I think the ones we have are New Yorkers.
Look at some on Ebay to get a general idea of their price. Some people have good info on them as well.

 

[Eyemo]

Thanks Cooper..... Older is better!! Did you notice the heat cracking effect on the paint?

Any one know where Holbrook is?

 

[Golden Earache]

Lots of cool info, Thanks!

 

[Justdog]

Cairns

Definately upload the picture to the people at Cairns as they will have a museum of helmets.

http://www.msafire.com/customer_service.html

 

[cooper]

A close up of mine shows these heat cracks. I must say that holding one of these old leather helments in your hands, well, they have a presence about them that is hard to describe.

 

[Justdog]

Patent

How do you date them? I've got one of the traditional leather ones... would like to know more.

Edward, Cairns
Patent number: 1575251
Filing date: 26 Feb 1925
Issue date: Mar 1926
Inventor: EDWARD CAIRNS
http://www.google.ca/patents?id=WpFBAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent+1575251

 

[VisforVictory]

One of the coolest moments in Gangs of New York is when the fire brigades come out, wearing some cool helmets. Where did the design of fire helmets originate from?

Henry Gratacap started the current design of the helmets in New York, later going into business with the Cairns firm, who took over entirely when Gratacap retired.

The frontpiece holder, namely the "high eagle," is attributed to a memorial in the yard of Trinity Church in Manhattan, where an eagle is atop the helmet of a fireman making a grab.

Don't get me started on "Gangs...," but one of the problems with this particular scene is the frontpieces of the Engine 6 firefighters. The producers came to the New York Fire Museum, which has in its collection, the special "Foreman" shield belonging to Boss Tweed, and used this as the basis for EVERYONE'S shield. *Buzzzzz*

That, and the fact that Tweed was no longer running with Big Six by '63...and "Black Joke" Engine 33 was an uptown company, and wouldn't have run first-due to a job in the Points.

I have a few FDNY helmets in my collection, and a couple of them have frontpieces not original to the helmet, so be aware of "mixing and matching" done by collectors over the years. One of my helmets is a slightly later one as evidenced by the Bourke eyeshields, yet it maintains the pre-1960s solid frontpiece. (Some other interior restoration work was done to it, too.)

 

[Justdog]

Switching pieces

I have a few FDNY helmets in my collection, and a couple of them have frontpieces not original to the helmet, so be aware of "mixing and matching" done by collectors over the years. One of my helmets is a slightly later one as evidenced by the Bourke eyeshields, yet it maintains the pre-1960s solid frontpiece. (Some other interior restoration work was done to it, too.)[/QUOTE]


Funny you should mention that as the liners in a certain modern helmet are being swapped out in favor of an older better fitting one. Wont mention who though

 

[Justdog]

FF Helmet

How do you date them? I've got one of the traditional leather ones... would like to know more.

If the inside metal faster has no letter before the word Cairns then the Helmet is at least pre 1947.

 

[Golden Earache]

Wow, V, thanks for the info. I like history and the people that know when it is right. I also like to know when trying to reproduce something historic that we have said people around to identify when it is incorrect.