Formal Wear Primer

[Marc Chevalier]

A very good tailor who has altered body coats before should be able to do it. Lesser tailors won't or will do a bad job. Like I said, it is not the case of simply taking in at the seams; the bottom of the tails will have to be taken off and the whole vent will have to be reconstructed before putting the two halves back together again.

In other words, it'll be a pain in the bum!



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[Charlie Huang]

Actually, after looking at the photo of the back of the coat the vent is done 'unconventionally' shall we say with the left not overlapping the right to the satisfactory degree (one suspects that the tailor did not fully comprehend how the vent is susposed to be constructed...). It could indeed be taken in without reconstructing the vent; simply take in the seams at the top half and then shift the left and right tails inwards to overlap the right side of the vent more on the bottom half. The two buttons ought to be 4" apart and no more.

The vent should look like this:

 

[Marc Chevalier]

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A somewhat reduced pain in the bum, then.


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[Tomasso]

the buttons: I don't really like them. They look to be plastic

fftopic: ------Anderson & Sheppard, Savile Row icon, routinely use plastic buttons on their bespoke garments.

 

[dhermann1]

There is every grade and quality of plastic. Some can look quite nice.

 

[boushi_mania]

Actually, after looking at the photo of the back of the coat the vent is done 'unconventionally' shall we say with the left not overlapping the right to the satisfactory degree (one suspects that the tailor did not fully comprehend how the vent is susposed to be constructed...). It could indeed be taken in without reconstructing the vent; simply take in the seams at the top half and then shift the left and right tails inwards to overlap the right side of the vent more on the bottom half. The two buttons ought to be 4" apart and no more.

The vent should look like this:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3355/sl372458.jpg

That's... odd. I'd think that it was done as a cost-saving measure, except the other coats from the same brand, from the same seller, don't have the same quirk and appear to be constructed normally. Maybe I got a lemon?

But let's say, for the sake of argument, that I try and get the tailor to fix these deficiencies when I go in to have the coat altered. How deep ought the pleats on the tails' seams be? And how far over should the vent be displaced from the center back seam — an inch? Halfway to the right tail-seam? Something else?

 

[Charlie Huang]

That's... odd. I'd think that it was done as a cost-saving measure, except the other coats from the same brand, from the same seller, don't have the same quirk and appear to be constructed normally. Maybe I got a lemon?

But let's say, for the sake of argument, that I try and get the tailor to fix these deficiencies when I go in to have the coat altered. How deep ought the pleats on the tails' seams be? And how far over should the vent be displaced from the center back seam — an inch? Halfway to the right tail-seam? Something else?

These pics below should be self-explanatory:

The left vent flap should overlap the right by 2 1/2". Note that the centre left piece of the top half and left vent flap (which overlaps the right) is one single piece of fabric (as is the same for the centre right top half piece and the right vent flap.

Now that I think about it more, it is a very tough job as I forgot that the top and bottom halves are two pieces rather than four. I can't see the vent very clearly in the eBay pic but it seems the edge of the left vent flap is right on the central seam which is wrong IMHO. In order to correct this, the vents alas must be reconstructed. If the top centre pieces and the bottom vent flaps are all one piece then a major re-cut of the whole coat must be done.

IMHO, it is not worth it given that £55 could buy you a morning coat (or even a whole vintage three-piece set) with the correct construction.

You have two choices, either leave it as it is or sell up and buy a new one. IMHO, you should not spend any more money to try to rectify this coat as it will cost you too much and the results will still be unsatisfactory.

I'm sorry to have to say that the tailor who made the coat has probably no idea how to construct a proper vent. Could you post a photo of the vent (like mines) so I can examine it more closely to confirm?

 

[boushi_mania]

I was beginning to suspect that, but for the moment, I've brought it to a respectable tailor (with illustrations of my ideal silhouette and the proper vent construction) to see what he can do with it. He told me "it might be a bit difficult" (that's Japanese for "no way in Hell"), but he humored me and said he'd take a look. I should know the verdict on Tuesday, but I'm not expecting much.

 

[Tomasso]

He told me "it might be a bit difficult" (that's Japanese for "no way in Hell"),

lol

 

[Barmey]

hi
does anyone know how to tie "one ender bow ties"? never encounterd them before but now have four.

 

[Feraud]

I believe they tie just like two enders.

 

[boushi_mania]

The verdict

Aaaand it's official: They can't do anything with the morning coat. There's just not enough material to fix the vent and tails into the proper configuration. In fact, I halfway suspect he kept the coat there at the counter for a day, just for the sake of humoring me. It didn't seem to have been moved.

But at any rate, back to the drawing board...

 

[dhermann1]

I have a one ender white silk tie that I got last year, and wore once with my white tie get up. It ties like a two ender but it's just a little trickier, it wants to slip out.

 

[Barmey]

ahh right ive finally got it now. sorry my bow tie skills are pretty non-existant.

 

[dhermann1]

Bow ties are like Carnegie Hall: Practice, practice, practice!
It does get easier.

 

[Charlie Huang]

I believe they tie just like two enders.

Yes, but you need to tuck the end into the shirt after.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Aaaand it's official: They can't do anything with the morning coat. There's just not enough material to fix the vent and tails into the proper configuration. In fact, I halfway suspect he kept the coat there at the counter for a day, just for the sake of humoring me. It didn't seem to have been moved.

But at any rate, back to the drawing board...

I's sort of guessed as much. Either keep it or get a new one. I would recommend a vintage one as they would be correct. Hogspear on eBay usually sells some spiffing examples.

 

[boushi_mania]

I's sort of guessed as much. Either keep it or get a new one. I would recommend a vintage one as they would be correct. Hogspear on eBay usually sells some spiffing examples.

I've almost won two or three of their offerings, only to be outbid at the last second each time. Frustration...

That said, it appears that there are some good examples up on eBay right now that might fit me, if only the sellers realized that a simple suit-size designation and nothing else is no good for describing a tailcoat.

Then there's the one who's selling a morning coat and a swallowtail coat in separate auctions, and accidentally paired the dove-grey waistcoat and striped trousers with the latter... :eusa_doh:

 

[Charlie Huang]

I've almost won two or three of their offerings, only to be outbid at the last second each time. Frustration...

That said, it appears that there are some good examples up on eBay right now that might fit me, if only the sellers realized that a simple suit-size designation and nothing else is no good for describing a tailcoat.

Then there's the one who's selling a morning coat and a swallowtail coat in separate auctions, and accidentally paired the dove-grey waistcoat and striped trousers with the latter... :eusa_doh:

You should post links so we can all tell you 'yay' or 'nay'. Best not to make a mistake again!

 

[boushi_mania]

You should post links so we can all tell you 'yay' or 'nay'. Best not to make a mistake again!

Very well, then...

I like the looks of this one. I don't know on what basis the seller decided that it's from the '30s or '40s, but at the very least, it seems to be constructed properly. The length appears about right, and while the sleeves are a bit long, that shouldn't be a problem as long as the buttons are applied rather than working.

That said, there's the issue of chest size. I'm pretty much exactly a 37, so I'll need to do something about that. (Incidentally, a Japanese size-A5 RTW tailcoat fits me pretty exactly, except that new ones are ridiculously expensive and Japanese people don't do "used" nearly as much as overseas.) The same tailor who vetoed any possibility of saving the last tailcoat nevertheless indicated that he'd be able to take in the 38"chest by mucking about with the sidebodies, but what do you think?