PanosChris
Practically Family
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- 973
Yes!
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German & Austrian Hutmachers
- Thread starter mayserwegener
- Start date
Mean Eyed Matt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,104
- Location
- Germany
Steve, unfortunately the lining is glued so tightly over the tag
that I can not see and photograph more. In addition,
the stitching of the sweat are so fragile that I can not get better
and do not want to try more...
However, I'm pretty sure it's the same label as on your pre-war Habig:
This one (somewhat edited) is the best I can give you;
the stamps are very hard to see even in the original:
What I can reed/guess
left: P. &. C. H. (upright)
Spezial-Qual.
next to it: Form - 23193
Höhe - nothing (part of the number above)
Rand - K... (maybe the beginning of the whole word?)
Bride - ???ala (maybe the rest of the word?)
Farbe - s
Everything above this line is not recognizable.
I wondered, what the "Bride" means. Any guess!?
EDIT: Is the "Bride" something like "Garnitur"!?
that I can not see and photograph more. In addition,
the stitching of the sweat are so fragile that I can not get better
and do not want to try more...
However, I'm pretty sure it's the same label as on your pre-war Habig:
This one (somewhat edited) is the best I can give you;
the stamps are very hard to see even in the original:
What I can reed/guess
left: P. &. C. H. (upright)
Spezial-Qual.
next to it: Form - 23193
Höhe - nothing (part of the number above)
Rand - K... (maybe the beginning of the whole word?)
Bride - ???ala (maybe the rest of the word?)
Farbe - s
Everything above this line is not recognizable.
I wondered, what the "Bride" means. Any guess!?
EDIT: Is the "Bride" something like "Garnitur"!?
Last edited:
- Messages
- 17,247
- Location
- Maryland
Panos, Thanks!
- Messages
- 17,247
- Location
- Maryland
Matt, Thank you! I had a similar situation with my latest P. & C. Habig Wien "Grand Prix Paris" Melone. The liner is so tightly stitched that I can't see the top of the paper label (oldest on record for P. & C. Habig Wien Soft or Stiff Felts). I was thinking yours might have date info but it's too old which is a good thing.Steve, unfortunately the lining is glued so tightly over the tag
that I can not see and photograph more. In addition,
the stitching of the sweat are so fragile that I can not get better
and do not want to try more...
However, I'm pretty sure it's the same label as on your pre-war Habig:
This one (somewhat edited) is the best I can give you;
the stamps are very hard to see even in the original:
What I can reed/guess
left: P. &. C. H. (upright)
Spezial-Qual.
next to it: Form - 23193
Höhe - nothing (part of the number above)
Rand - K... (maybe the beginning of the whole word?)
Bride - ???ala (maybe the rest of the word?)
Farbe - s
Everything above this line is not recognizable.
I wondered, what the "Bride" means. Any guess!?
EDIT: Is the "Bride" something like "Garnitur"!?
Mean Eyed Matt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,104
- Location
- Germany
You're welcome, Steve.
The label of yours that I showed above as a comparison
is the only one like that I have found here in the threat.
But your hat is much older than mine/Panos', I think?!
Do you have any idea/feeling on dating?
I would have thought early 30s/possibly late 20s!!!?
And do you have any guess of the "Bride"?
The label of yours that I showed above as a comparison
is the only one like that I have found here in the threat.
But your hat is much older than mine/Panos', I think?!
Do you have any idea/feeling on dating?
I would have thought early 30s/possibly late 20s!!!?
And do you have any guess of the "Bride"?
- Messages
- 17,247
- Location
- Maryland
Matt, I think it's from the about the time period of this one which is date stamped 1930. I think it might be a bit earlier because the date stamp is from a different Munich Hat Store (Johann Zehme).
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/5-p-c-habig-hutfabrik/?do=findComment&comment=712
Mean Eyed Matt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,104
- Location
- Germany
Matt, I think it's from the about the time period of this one which is date stamped 1930. I think it might be a bit earlier because the date stamp is from a different Munich Hat Store (Johann Zehme).
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/5-p-c-habig-hutfabrik/?do=findComment&comment=712
Thank you so much, Steve!
Again, your collection and knowledge is outstanding!
- Messages
- 17,247
- Location
- Maryland
Matt
Matt, Thank you! We all continue to make great finds.
Superb reference. I'll be sure to have that on hand when the next Hückel comes in. Thanks, Steve.I have cataloged all the currently known J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft and Stiff Felt Hat Paper Label Types. I have included a time period plus confidence level.
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts Post WWI Type 1 (Late 1920s to Mid 1930s, Strong Confidence)
Album of JHS Soft Felt Hats Post WWI Type 1 (Late 1920s to Mid 1930s, Strong Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVvski4
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts Post WWI Type 2 (Mid 1930s, Medium Confidence)
Album of JHS Soft Felt Hats Post WWI Type 2 (Mid 1930s, Medium Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVr8q8H
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts Post WWI Type 3 (Late 1930s to Early 1940s, Strong Confidence)
Album of JHS Soft Felt Hats Post WWI Type 3 (Late 1930s to Early 1940s, Strong Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVrKcjL
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts Post WWI Type 4 (Late 1930s to Early 1940s, Strong Confidence)
Album of JHS Soft Felt Hats Post WWI Type 4 (Late 1930s to Early 1940s, Strong Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVqNe87
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts Post WWI Type 5 (Late 1920s to Mid 1930s, Could be from Old Stock, Medium Confidence)
Album of JHS Soft Felt Hats Post WWI Type 5 (Late 1920s to Mid 1930s, Could be from Old Stock, Medium Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVqC1gj
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts Post WWI Type 6 (Late 1930s early 1940s, Strong Confidence)
Album of JHS Soft Felt Hats Post WWI Type 6 (Late 1930s to Early 1940s, Strong Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVvvxes
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts Post WWI Type 7 (Mid 1920s to Late 1920s, Strong Confidence)
Album of JHS Soft Felt Hats Post WWI Type 7 (Mid 1920s to Late 1920s, Strong Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVrKL8S
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts Post WWI Type 8 (Late 1920s early 1930s, Medium Confidence)
Album of JHS Soft Felt Hats Post WWI Type 8 (Late 1920s early 1930s, Medium Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVqNMVw
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts WWI Era or Older Type 1 (Early 1900s to Early 1920s, Strong Confidence)
Album of Soft Felts WWI Era or Older Type 1 (Early 1900s to Early 1920s, Strong Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVr9Nca
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts WWI Era or Older Type 2 (1890s to Early 1900s, Strong Confidence)
Album of Soft Felts WWI Era or Older Type 2 (1890s to Early 1900s, Strong Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVqCMS9
J. Hückel´s Söhne Soft Felts WWI Era or Older Type 3 (Early 1900s to Early 1920s, Strong Confidence)
Album of Soft Felts WWI Era or Older Type 3 (Early 1900s to Early 1920s, Strong Confidence)
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVqCQST
I will post JHS Stiff Felts Post WWI and WWI Era or Older next.
Very nice, Matt. Seems well preserved.P.&C. Habig Wien - black Melone/Bowler/Derby - pre war - 1930s?
Hat (felt, liner) in nice condition - just the sweat is worn & some stitches lost.
This one is a smaller size and therefore reserved for our friend Panos.
Did I really need it? No, but it was a nice looking hat and the price was right.
Wilke fedora in Samson quality. Size 56 (probably) with the bound brim at almost 7 cm and the crown at an impressive 11,5 cm at the center dent. It was the Whippet-like look of the hat that made me think : "why not?". Nothing exceptional, but just a very well made hat of the late fifties or early sixties maybe. Liner is still stitched in.
H. Goldbeck is Heinrich Goldbeck of Brackwede, Bielefeld, Germany. The shop was around from 1912 until it finally closed its doors in 2014.
Wilke fedora in Samson quality. Size 56 (probably) with the bound brim at almost 7 cm and the crown at an impressive 11,5 cm at the center dent. It was the Whippet-like look of the hat that made me think : "why not?". Nothing exceptional, but just a very well made hat of the late fifties or early sixties maybe. Liner is still stitched in.
H. Goldbeck is Heinrich Goldbeck of Brackwede, Bielefeld, Germany. The shop was around from 1912 until it finally closed its doors in 2014.
PanosChris
Practically Family
- Messages
- 973
Nice color combo and great condition to say the least!
PanosChris
Practically Family
- Messages
- 973
That one has just arrived. FGM Bayerland in black velour.
I can't really speak highly enough of the felt and velour quality. Unfortunately no paper label 
- Messages
- 17,247
- Location
- Maryland
Stefan, Thank you!
- Messages
- 17,247
- Location
- Maryland
Stefan, Thank you!
Stefan, I am glad you decided to pick it up. Looks great! I can't remember who had the Wilke mark in this time period.
- Messages
- 17,247
- Location
- Maryland
Panos, Super! Definitely an old one and in fantastic condition. I am not aware of any production by FGM so probably sourced. I don't believe the paper label would reveal much regarding a possible alternate source.That one has just arrived. FGM Bayerland in black velour. View attachment 331652 View attachment 331653 View attachment 331654 View attachment 331655 View attachment 331656 View attachment 331657 View attachment 331658 View attachment 331659 View attachment 331660 I can't really speak highly enough of the felt and velour quality. Unfortunately no paper label
PanosChris
Practically Family
- Messages
- 973
Steve thank you!! Unlike the listing and what I initially thought, it's indeed an older one! Even if the source is not known, the velour on that one is really fantastic!
Thanks, Panos.
Fabulous find, Panos. That is a thing of beauty!That one has just arrived. FGM Bayerland in black velour. View attachment 331652 View attachment 331653 View attachment 331654 View attachment 331655 View attachment 331656 View attachment 331657 View attachment 331658 View attachment 331659 View attachment 331660 I can't really speak highly enough of the felt and velour quality. Unfortunately no paper label
Thank you, Steve. I see I forgot to post the label. Not a Wilke label though.
- Messages
- 17,247
- Location
- Maryland
Stefan, Thanks! Here is Wilke with a similar paper label fthat Manfred found a while ago.
The F.W.S. on the paper label is Friedrich W. Schneider Köln and as you know they are still in business today and own Stetson Europe.
I actually found a F.W.S. advertisement (in a 1954 German Hat Exhibition booklet I have photo archived) that mentions the Wilke mark.
I believe F.W.S. sourced their hats in this time period because I haven't found evidence of any production facilities. F.W.S. also purchased the Berlin Gubener Hutfabrik (B.G.H.) mark post WWII.
- Messages
- 17,247
- Location
- Maryland
I found that Distributor / Wholesaler Wilhelm Ispert Köln acquired the Möckel mark back in the 1930s. PH. Möckel went out of business in 1931 because of the World depression. Here is a Wilhelm Ispert Köln advertisement from December 1936 that mentions the Möckel mark.
(From: Deutsche Hutmacher-Zeitung, December 15, 1936)
Wilhelm Ispert Köln also distributed some of the mystery WW2 era or older Wool hats with the following paper label types. My guess is the Hat Manufacturer was one (or more than one) of the major Wool Hat Factories in Guben, Germany.
WISKO = Wilhelm Ispert Köln
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/278-wisko-rossach-kosmos-1/
(From: Deutsche Hutmacher-Zeitung, December 15, 1936)
Wilhelm Ispert Köln also distributed some of the mystery WW2 era or older Wool hats with the following paper label types. My guess is the Hat Manufacturer was one (or more than one) of the major Wool Hat Factories in Guben, Germany.
WISKO = Wilhelm Ispert Köln
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/278-wisko-rossach-kosmos-1/