German & Austrian Hutmachers

[Martvjp]

May I ask, who was the person at the museum that made this claim? As Matt wrote, your hat was made by Hückel Weilheim, Bavaria, West Germany possibly late 1950s early 1960s. Here is the story about how Hückel Weilheim was formed post WWII. There is an English translation.

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/3/#findComment-952

This is info on the Ratibor factory. I gave this document to the Novy Jicin City museum. The men that formed Hückel Weilheim came from the Ratibor factory. This documents what happened post WWI and the reason for the Ratibor factory. There is an English translation.

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/3/#findComment-961

Thanks a lot for the links and information, I will check it out !
The person who replied to me was Radek Polách.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks a lot for the links and information, I will check it out !
The person who replied to me was Radek Polách.

I know Radek. His focus is company history so not hat specific. Write and tell him Steve Heck said it's Hückel Weilheim and possibly late 1950s early 1960s.

 

[Martvjp]

I know Radek. His focus is company history so not hat specific. Write and tell him Steve Heck said it's Hückel Weilheim and possibly late 1950s early 1960s.

Ok I will do ! Thanks Steve ! If I find another Hückel I will let you know

 

[mayserwegener]

Ok I will do ! Thanks Steve ! If I find another Hückel I will let you know

You can look through my website or this thread. There are plenty of Hückel Weilheim examples. It's very clear that your hat was made by Hückel Weilheim.

Here is a brief overview on how I see J. Hückel´s Söhne /JHS, Tonak, PolkaP and Hückel Weilheim, It's definitely complicated plus there is a lack of production information.

JHS up to WWI = Main Factory Neutitschein / Nový Jičín (Soft and Stiff Felt Production), Wien Factory (Stiff Felt Hat Production). Neutitschein / Nový Jičín was part of Austria Hungary.

JHS Up to WWII = Main Factory Neutitschein / Nový Jičín (Soft and Stiff Felt Production) Supplied non German Markets and possibly German Markets. Neutitschein / Nový Jičín was made part of Czechoslovakia. Exports to German markets was prohibited. Under German occupation this changes. Ratibor / Racibórz Factory (Soft Felt Production) Supplied German Markets and possibly other markets. Skoczów Factory. No production information.

After WWI only Soft and Stiff Felt Hats that are marked as "made in Czechoslovakia" (language dependent) exported to non German countries can be identified as Main Factory Neutitschein / Nový Jičín. There is no way to know what Soft Felt Hats came from the Ratibor or Skoczów (as mention I have no production information) factories.

JHS during WWII and shortly after = Main Factory Neutitschein / Nový Jičín switched to war production. No information on the Ratibor and Skoczów factories. Shortly after the war Main Factory Neutitschein / Nový Jičí was nationalized as Tonak (still in business today). The Ratibor factory was closed. Skoczów was nationalized as PolkaP (still in business today). German workers were expelled. Post WWII the use of the Hückel brand becomes more complicated.

Tonak post WWII to 1960 = Main Factory Neutitschein / Nový Jičín used Tonak brand for Czechoslovakia and East European markets. Janyska & Cie became Tonak factory 2. Not sure what or if they produced under the Hückel brand. Early on Plant Hückel and Formerly Hückel are used for American markets. Eventually just Hückel. Similar variations in other non German and non East European markets. Tonak had the Hückel brand outside of the West German market.

Hückel Weilheim, Bavaria, West Germany = Started by expelled German workers from the Ratibor factory and financed by Fritz Hückel former owner of JHS. They had use of the Hückel brand in Germany which Tonak didn't appear to challenge. Hückel Weilheim was successful in Germany and lasted to the early 1970s. They also exported to America under Fritz Hückel Hutmacher.

PolkaP = Produced under their own mark for the Polish and East European markets. Possible they used Hückel too.

Side Note: I found this back in 2016. I believe it was a failed attempt. There is no production information.

Der Neffe von Fritz Hückel, Hugo Augustin Hückel (1899–1947), der Sponsor des deutschen Raketenkonstrukteurs Johannes Winkler war, versuchte 1946 in Wien, zusammen mit der Hutfabrik A. Sindermann und P. & C. Habig als Hückel & Co. firmierend, eine Hutproduktion wieder in Gang zu setzen.

The nephew of Fritz Hückel, Hugo Augustin Hückel (1899-1947), who was a sponsor of the German rocket technical designer Johannes Winkler, tried in 1946 in Vienna, together with the hat factory A. Sindermann and P. & C. Habig as a Hückel & Co. to get going a hat production again.

 

[the_imperialist]

New arrival, 30s Hückel made foe the Japanese market.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

New arrival, 30s Hückel made foe the Japanese market.

As always, you don't disappoint, Wayne: That hat makes me jealous – one of Hückel's best and hard to beat! The Daytoku logo is interesting and special: Is that the dealer or the importer (or both)?

 

[steur]

New arrival, 30s Hückel made foe the Japanese market.

I'm with Matt: fantastic find again, Wayne. Every time you post I get excited because it's going to be a good one!

 

[mayserwegener]

New arrival, 30s Hückel made foe the Japanese market.

Wayne, Super find! It's really great to see the Japanese market JHS Hats. Is it possible to post a photo of the paper label?

 

[jeffgarf]

I present a rare 26 year old Hückel Chasidko Super. These hats had been made for many years, I believe even pre-WWI based upon photos I have seen, specifically for the Chassidic community. I believe they are no longer produced by them and all production had shifted to a Spanish company, Fernandez y Roche. Additionally, this style seems to be no longer used (for reasons unknown). While these hats can still be seen being worn in the streets of Jerusalem by men who probably bought them in Europe, I do not think these are so prevalent in the US and European Chassidic communities any longer, making this a rare find.

Here is a pdf link to an article showing and discussing some of the Chassidic hats in Brooklyn, NY in 2010 - The Hats of Borough Park

Here is interesting news from today about the Chassidic hats of Fernandez y Roche - Trump's trade war imperils Spanish hatmaker's business with US Orthodox Jews

 

[mayserwegener]

I present a rare 26 year old Hückel Chasidko Super. These hats had been made for many years, I believe even pre-WWI based upon photos I have seen, specifically for the Chassidic community. I believe they are no longer produced by them and all production had shifted to a Spanish company, Fernandez y Roche. Additionally, this style seems to be no longer used (for reasons unknown). While these hats can still be seen being worn in the streets of Jerusalem by men who probably bought them in Europe, I do not think these are so prevalent in the US and European Chassidic communities any longer, making this a rare find.

Here is a pdf link to an article showing and discussing some of the Chassidic hats in Brooklyn, NY in 2010 - The Hats of Borough Park

Here is interesting news from today about the Chassidic hats of Fernandez y Roche - Trump's trade war imperils Spanish hatmaker's business with US Orthodox Jews

Tonak still makes such Velour hats for the Orthodox communities but they are secretive about it. SELCO goes back aways. I did some research awhile ago but can't remember the details. The info is on the FL. Just search SELCO by Member -> mayserwegener . Also "Selentino" = SELCO.

 

[jeffgarf]

Tonak still makes such Velour hats for the Orthodox communities but they are secretive about it. SELCO goes back goes back aways. I did some research awhile ago but can't remember the details. They are posted somewhere here on the FL. Just search SELCO by Member -> mayserwegener . Also "Selentino" = SELCO.

This is probably true about Tonak, but I don't think the styles are similar any longer. Several years ago, shopping in a store that catered to the Chassidic community, I purchased a fedora that I am certain was a Tonak body with a made up brand name (possibly maintaining the "secrecy"). I can check with my contacts in this community (including my brother-in-law) to see if the Czech-made hats (which we know are going to be Tonak, even if the name is different) are still as prevalent. I believe that Selco, a a seller of black fedora hats, post WWII attempted to re-establish as a brand in the US, the hats that the community had been purchasing in Europe, but I do not think they had the same success that Stetson (yes really HatCo Inc.) had and then, thanks to the influence of a particular rabbi, Borsalino, which is now the standard. @besdor could chime in (in the old days), but as a consumer since the 80's, I think this is the case.

Edit - I am being told by my brother-in-law in Israel that the current stuff is probably Chinese! Go figure.

 

[mayserwegener]

This is probably true about Tonak, but I don't think the styles are similar any longer. Several years ago, shopping in a store that catered to the Chassidic community, I purchased a fedora that I am certain was a Tonak body with a made up brand name (possibly maintaining the "secrecy"). I can check with my contacts in this community (including my brother-in-law) to see if the Czech-made hats (which we know are going to be Tonak, even if the name is different) are still as prevalent. I believe that Selco, a a seller of black fedora hats, post WWII attempted to re-establish as a brand in the US, the hats that the community had been purchasing in Europe, but I do not think they had the same success that Stetson (yes really HatCo Inc.) had and then, thanks to the influence of a particular rabbi, Borsalino, which is now the standard. @besdor could chime in (in the old days), but as a consumer since the 80's, I think this is the case.

Edit - I am being told by my brother-in-law in Israel that the current stuff is probably Chinese! Go figure.

Tonak relies heavily on Jewish market and it's not just the finished hat. It's Velour hoods and capelines. Tonak is one of the last producers of high quality Velour felt. They also have a protected black dye process that is coveted by the Jewish market. Tonak wouldn't show me their dying production or Velour production. Stetson and Borsalino were not known for Velour felt like JHS (became Tonak after WWII).

Tonak Jewish Hat (This quality Velour is not being made in China. )

Židovský klobouk

Pevný židovský klobouk vyrobený ze speciálního veluru - platina. Je zdobený kloboukovou stuhou a lemováním, vybaven podšívkou a koženým potním páskem.Výška hlavy 11,5 cm, šířka krempy Výrobek obsahuje netextilní části živočišného původu.

www.tonak.cz

Hats for Jews and Muslims. Tonak from Novojičín produces for the whole world

Klobouky pro židy i muslimy. Novojičínský Tonak vyrábí pro celý svět | Ekonomika | Lidovky.cz

Tonak je jedním z největších oděvních podniků v Česku. Jen nepatrná část jeho výroby končí na hlavách místních. Většina klobouků je určena pro americkou, italskou, ale i židovskou nebo muslimskou klientelu.

www-lidovky-cz.translate.goog

Thousands of Jewish hats were made in TONAK!

Michael Tělecký posted on LinkedIn

Michael Tělecký posted images on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

JHS was a major felt and hat manufacturer up to WWII. It was a totally different situation. As the hat business weakened post WWII specialty markets became very important. See Borsalino and Tonak.

Tonak was selling to the American market (not just the Jewish market) under the Hückel brand post WWII prior to SELCO. Besdor would not challenge anything I have to say about JHS / Tonak. His business is focused on Borsalino. If Borsalino is making a similar Velour hat like the Tonak I posted above they are sourcing the Velour (or the entire hat) from most likely Tonak.

I researched SELCO and all the info is here on the FL. I am not interested in anything post 1950s so it doesn't really matter to me. The Selentino brand made by Tonak is the same people as SELCO.

Men's Hats | Selentino Hats | Fine Velour Beaver Classic Hats

Selentino Hats

selentinohat.com

 

[jeffgarf]

I do not dispute anything written about Tonak through the era you discussed. I was referring to post 2012 or so when there seems to have been a change, first to begin using the Spanish hatmaker, then the current situation with the Chinese (who are clearly sourcing their capelines from somewhere else). The word Borsalino used in the Alibaba ad copy is for search purposes and does not indicate that they are using fur felt from them.

 

[mayserwegener]

I do not dispute anything written about Tonak through the era you discussed. I was referring to post 2012 or so when there seems to have been a change, first to begin using the Spanish hatmaker, then the current situation with the Chinese (who are clearly sourcing their capelines from somewhere else). The word Borsalino used in the Alibaba ad copy is for search purposes and does not indicate that they are using fur felt from them.

I am referring to post 2012. The Spanish hat company Fernández y ROCHE is not making Velour Felt. It's possible they they have Velour finishing (I tend to doubt that) but they are not making Velour Felt (I know Borsalino isn't for sure and they are not producing Velour finishes). If Fernández y ROCHE are making such Jewish Velour Hats (see the Tonak Jewish Hat I posted) they are sourcing the Velour Felt (unfinished or finished) most likely from Tonak. The current Velour Felt sources (unfinshed, finished) I know for sure are Tonak (Czech Republic) and FESPA (Portugal). I have no idea about KHUST-FІLTS (Ukraine). I am pretty sure PolkaP (Poland) is not making Velour Felt. ŠEŠIR (Slovenia) shutdown and liquidated all assets in 2017.

 

[jeffgarf]

Velour felt is not the only Chassidic hat type. You may be referring to the Morson hat that has been sold in Brooklyn for many years and is Czech-made, presumably by Tonak

I believe that this is being supplemented in inventory in those same Brooklyn shops by hats such as these:
Which, I can see from the lining, is very similar in construction to Fedoras that are sold to a different part of the Jewish market that I know are Chinese.

Lastly, other types of Chassidic hats used by different sects, but are not fedoras, are also not velour and are rabbit or fur with a similar construction to fedoras, such as these by Fernandez y Roche:

 

[mayserwegener]

Velour felt is not the only Chassidic hat type. You may be referring to the Morson hat that has been sold in Brooklyn for many years and is Czech-made, presumably by Tonak
View attachment 707048
View attachment 707049
I believe that this is being supplemented in inventory in those same Brooklyn shops by hats such as these: View attachment 707051
Which, I can see from the lining, is very similar in construction to Fedoras that are sold to a different part of the Jewish market that I know are Chinese.

Lastly, other types of Chassidic hats used by different sects, but are not fedoras, are also not velour and are rabbit or fur with a similar construction to fedoras, such as these by Fernandez y Roche:
View attachment 707052
View attachment 707053
View attachment 707054

I know there are different types of Jewish market Fur Felt Hat Forms and Finishes (Smooth Finishes, Velour Finishes). I was addressing only Velour Hats which is the Selco Hat you posted. The the companies I listed also supply other types of Fur felt (I am not including Wool Hat Felt). There are not many Fur Felt producers that are outsourcing Fur Felt capelines and hoods. They are the companies I listed Tonak (Czech Republic), FESPA (Portugal), KHUST-FІLTS (Ukraine) and PolkaP (Poland). When it comes to Velour felt (unfinished, finished) I only know for sure that Tonak and FEPSA are producers.

 

[steur]

Hückel velour fedora in grey, made especially for Sools, Paris. I'm guessing it's an early one, judging by the Sools imprint on the liner, which is a style we've not seen before. I'll do a separate piece on Sools in the French hats thread.
As can be expected from Hückel the felt is in a category of its own, but man, this hat was dirty when it arrived!
Size 57 or 58, depending on which label you want to believe. Raw edge brim at 5,5cm and the crown at 10,5cm at the center dent. It has some little battlescars, but it has survived what likely is about the last hundred years very well.
Probably Steve @mayserwegener can give some more information about the label (I don't know if the "a etui" was a quality designation or not).

 

[steur]

This is some additional information on the hat.

The sweatband before and after:

The sweatband also has some kind of registration number:

The hat before and after:

 

[Pellie]

This is some additional information on the hat.

The sweatband before and after:
View attachment 707933 View attachment 707935

The sweatband also has some kind of registration number:
View attachment 707936

The hat before and after:
View attachment 707932 View attachment 707937 View attachment 707934

Nice Job!!

 

[steur]

Nice Job!!

Thanks, Marcel. Satisfying if they clean up this nicely.