German & Austrian Hutmachers

[Steve1857]

Hückel velour fedora in grey, made especially for Sools, Paris. I'm guessing it's an early one, judging by the Sools imprint on the liner, which is a style we've not seen before. I'll do a separate piece on Sools in the French hats thread.
As can be expected from Hückel the felt is in a category of its own, but man, this hat was dirty when it arrived!
Size 57 or 58, depending on which label you want to believe. Raw edge brim at 5,5cm and the crown at 10,5cm at the center dent. It has some little battlescars, but it has survived what likely is about the last hundred years very well.
Probably Steve @mayserwegener can give some more information about the label (I don't know if the "a etui" was a quality designation or not).

Great find, Stefan, and nice clean up job.

Love the unique bow treatment.

 

[mayserwegener]

Hückel velour fedora in grey, made especially for Sools, Paris. I'm guessing it's an early one, judging by the Sools imprint on the liner, which is a style we've not seen before. I'll do a separate piece on Sools in the French hats thread.
As can be expected from Hückel the felt is in a category of its own, but man, this hat was dirty when it arrived!
Size 57 or 58, depending on which label you want to believe. Raw edge brim at 5,5cm and the crown at 10,5cm at the center dent. It has some little battlescars, but it has survived what likely is about the last hundred years very well.
Probably Steve @mayserwegener can give some more information about the label (I don't know if the "a etui" was a quality designation or not).

Stefan, Super find and great cleaning job! I didn't find a "A Etui" but I did find a "J Etui" which I could be "I Etui" because of German "J". Also "J" for Jota and "A" for Alpha .

JHS "Durit" "J Etui", French market. This Velour hat belongs to Robert (RLK).

https://germanaustrianhats.invision...el-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/3/#findComment-808

I also have this German trademark registered (1925) by the JHS Ratibor, Silesia Factory but I have never encountered this trademark or any JHS Ratibor, Silesia trademarks.

https://germanaustrianhats.invision...l-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/8/#findComment-4709

"Etui" was used by Rockel & Co. Asfeld and S. & J. Fraenkel Wien, Ebreichsdorfer Filzhutfabrik.

Echter Rockel Haar Etui

This Soft Felt belongs to Robert (RLK).

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/17-rockel-hutfabrik/#findComment-337

S. J. Frankel Wien "Sirius 1/2 (Et.) Etui", date stamped 01/06/1959.

Gustav Menschel wrote to me that, "½ Etui(Et.) Is an indication of Stump weight, about 120grams." He didn't address what "Etui" meant.

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/12-s-j-fraenkel-wien/#findComment-2000

I searched around and I found that "Etui" in German but similar meaning to the French.

French (a small ornamental case)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/etui

German (small case)

https://www.duden.de/rechtschrei****/Etui

Possible "Etui" was used similar to "Superior" or "Prima". Both JHS examples are from French market Velour Hat so that could be a factor. Your "A Etui" is a Type 1 paper label.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26044488@N04/albums/72157719089675145/

Here is an example of the JHS liner stamp. There are some other examples on my website.

J. Hückel´s Söhne, Seiden Zylinder, Czech market, possibly 1930s.

https://germanaustrianhats.invision...l-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/4/#findComment-1119

 

[Trenchfriend]

This thread is still pure gold! Keep going!

 

[mayserwegener]

I did some further searching of "Etui".

I found the following in Gustav Menschel's "Der Hut". "Etuihüte" and "Halbetuihüte" are used to describe lighter weight Stiff Felt Hats (see below).

3.1 Steif hut

Die Herstellung einwandfreier Steifhüte ist schwierig, nur wenige der gelernten Hutmacher können dies. Bei Haarstumpen liegen die Auswaagegewichte für Etuihüte zwischen 65 und 75 g, Halbetuihüte 75–85 g, Standard 90–100 g und Englisch-Hüte (extrastarke Hüte) 120–130 g. Wollstumpen, hergestellt aus hochwertigem Rohmaterial, wiegen zwischen 60 und 70 Gramm. In jedem Fall ist die Walke so zu gestalten, dass Filze mit festem Kern und feiner,
glatter Oberfläche entstehen. Im Abschnitt Haarstumpenproduktion / 7.1 Färben wird das Färben der steifen Hüte
beschrieben.

3.1 Stiff Hat
Making perfect stiff hats is difficult, and only a few skilled milliners are skilled at it. For hair stumps, the weights for ?case? hats range from 65 to 75 g, half-?case? hats from 75 to 85 g, standard hats from 90 to 100 g, and English hats (extra-strong hats) from 120 to 130 g. Wool stumps, made from high-quality raw materials, weigh between 60 and 70 grams. In any case, the fulling process must be designed to produce felt with a firm core and a fine, smooth surface. The dyeing of stiff hats is described in the section "Hair Stump Production / 7.1 Dyeing."

I did some further searching of "Etuihüte" (found a few mentions) and I found it also applies to very fine lighter weight Soft Felt Hats (see below). I am not sure why the word "Etui" was used in German because I couldn't find anything for Etui Hats or Chapeaux Étui that applies specifically to hats. Possible "Etui" has an an alternate meaning (not "Case") in German that I couldn't find.

Etui / ?Case? hats made of ?very fine? soft felt, especially suitable for summer due to their lightness, from 2 fl 60 kr to 2 fl 80 kr are available at Franz Ostermayr Huterer in Vöcklabruck

From: Oberösterreichischer Gebirgsbote, 1883

 

[steur]

Stefan, Super find and great cleaning job! I didn't find a "A Etui" but I did find a "J Etui" which I could be "I Etui" because of German "J". Also "J" for Jota and "A" for Alpha .

JHS "Durit" "J Etui", French market. This Velour hat belongs to Robert (RLK).

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/3/#findComment-808

I also have this German trademark registered (1925) by the JHS Ratibor, Silesia Factory but I have never encountered this trademark or any JHS Ratibor, Silesia trademarks.

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/8/#findComment-4709

"Etui" was used by Rockel & Co. Asfeld and S. & J. Fraenkel Wien, Ebreichsdorfer Filzhutfabrik.

Echter Rockel Haar Etui

This Soft Felt belongs to Robert (RLK).

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/17-rockel-hutfabrik/#findComment-337

S. J. Frankel Wien "Sirius 1/2 (Et.) Etui", date stamped 01/06/1959.

Gustav Menschel wrote to me that, "½ Etui(Et.) Is an indication of Stump weight, about 120grams." He didn't address what "Etui" meant.

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/12-s-j-fraenkel-wien/#findComment-2000

I searched around and I found that "Etui" in German but similar meaning to the French.

French (a small ornamental case)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/etui

German (small case)

https://www.duden.de/rechtschrei****/Etui

Possible "Etui" was used similar to "Superior" or "Prima". Both JHS examples are from French market Velour Hat so that could be a factor. Your "A Etui" is a Type 1 paper label.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26044488@N04/albums/72157719089675145/

Here is an example of the JHS liner stamp. There are some other examples on my website.

J. Hückel´s Söhne, Seiden Zylinder, Czech market, possibly 1930s.

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page/4/#findComment-1119

I did some further searching of "Etui".

I found the following in Gustav Menschel's "Der Hut". "Etuihüte" and "Halbetuihüte" are used to describe lighter weight Stiff Felt Hats (see below).

3.1 Steif hut

Die Herstellung einwandfreier Steifhüte ist schwierig, nur wenige der gelernten Hutmacher können dies. Bei Haarstumpen liegen die Auswaagegewichte für Etuihüte zwischen 65 und 75 g, Halbetuihüte 75–85 g, Standard 90–100 g und Englisch-Hüte (extrastarke Hüte) 120–130 g. Wollstumpen, hergestellt aus hochwertigem Rohmaterial, wiegen zwischen 60 und 70 Gramm. In jedem Fall ist die Walke so zu gestalten, dass Filze mit festem Kern und feiner,
glatter Oberfläche entstehen. Im Abschnitt Haarstumpenproduktion / 7.1 Färben wird das Färben der steifen Hüte
beschrieben.

3.1 Stiff Hat
Making perfect stiff hats is difficult, and only a few skilled milliners are skilled at it. For hair stumps, the weights for ?case? hats range from 65 to 75 g, half-?case? hats from 75 to 85 g, standard hats from 90 to 100 g, and English hats (extra-strong hats) from 120 to 130 g. Wool stumps, made from high-quality raw materials, weigh between 60 and 70 grams. In any case, the fulling process must be designed to produce felt with a firm core and a fine, smooth surface. The dyeing of stiff hats is described in the section "Hair Stump Production / 7.1 Dyeing."

I did some further searching of "Etuihüte" (found a few mentions) and I found it also applies to very fine lighter weight Soft Felt Hats (see below). I am not sure why the word "Etui" was used in German because I couldn't find anything for Etui Hats or Chapeaux Étui that applies specifically to hats. Possible "Etui" has an an alternate meaning (not "Case") in German that I couldn't find.

Etui / ?Case? hats made of ?very fine? soft felt, especially suitable for summer due to their lightness, from 2 fl 60 kr to 2 fl 80 kr are available at Franz Ostermayr Huterer in Vöcklabruck

From: Oberösterreichischer Gebirgsbote, 1883

Thank you, Steve. That is some fantastic extra information! Other than that it sounds fancy because it's French there is some logic to using the word "etui" for a lighter weight hat. The word is used in Dutch as well and has the same meaning (a small case or pouch).

Great find, Stefan, and nice clean up job.

Love the unique bow treatment.

Thank you, Steve.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thank you, Steve. That is some fantastic extra information! Other than that it sounds fancy because it's French there is some logic to using the word "etui" for a lighter weight hat. The word is used in Dutch as well and has the same meaning (a small case or pouch).

Stefan, Thank you! This is highly possible -> "Other than that it sounds fancy because it's French". I found this advertisement for Ebreichsdorfer Filzhutfabrik S. & J. Fraenkel in the 1928-1929 Austrian Industry Compass that mentions "Etuihüte" but possibly misspelled as "Etuishüte" because in the directory listing it's spelled "Etuihüte".

 

[smarks15]

Velour felt is not the only Chassidic hat type. You may be referring to the Morson hat that has been sold in Brooklyn for many years and is Czech-made, presumably by Tonak
View attachment 707048
View attachment 707049
I believe that this is being supplemented in inventory in those same Brooklyn shops by hats such as these: View attachment 707051
Which, I can see from the lining, is very similar in construction to Fedoras that are sold to a different part of the Jewish market that I know are Chinese.

Lastly, other types of Chassidic hats used by different sects, but are not fedoras, are also not velour and are rabbit or fur with a similar construction to fedoras, such as these by Fernandez y Roche:
View attachment 707052
View attachment 707053
View attachment 707054

I can provide some additional information on this.

The Morson Hat is sold by Krausz Hatters, a very historic hasidic hat brand in Brooklyn. They currently come in two materials velour felt and a plastic synthetic (waterproof for rainy weather, unlike the felt velour which gets warped and whose black color fades out in the rain; if you ever see Hasidish men wearing plastic shopping bags over their hats, this is why and most stores will give you a shopping bag if caught in the rain). Morson is velour felt while the Noble hat above is the plastic version.

If you speak Yiddish, you can hear a bit about them here:

I believe the Biber hat brand in Israel was the first to introduce the waterproof plastic idea, but I believe they went out of business or were bought by another one of the brands.

I actually have one of the velour felt hats that is missing the inner lining, and it is manufactured in China currently. I can't read Chinese, but there are markings inside in Chinese from the manufacturing process. Same goes for all the Hasidish squared-off velour felt hats. I don't know why, but it seems to correlate with the switching from the older style rounded hat to the newer style squared-off ones; it seems that the switching from Huckel/Tonak to Chinese hats coincides with a switch from round to squared-off shapes.

Other reputable brands for these hats are Belmonti Hats and Sanders hats (who I believe is related to Krausz), both of which also come from China.

I mostly wear Fernandez & Roche, and they're extremely well made. You can get them in velour felt, but really only famous Rabbis wear these, usually from Poland or Lithuania. I also know that about 50 years ago, they used to sell the more squared-off style felt velour hat, but I don't believe they do anymore.

My Fernandez & Roche hat (similar to the second Fernandez & Roche above) is actually quite hard, unlike a Borsalino or other Fedora. I had to get it steamed to alter the shape or pinches in any way, unlike the Borsalino which can just be pinched with a finger.

There is of course the Shtufina hat as well, which is the first Kova picture above with the fancier brim. Those are more conservative and tend to be more Satmar and Satmar-affiliated people. I don't have one of these so cannot speak for it. They tend to be an extra $25ish dollars above the standard Kova, but I believe they may be even higher with tariff price increases.

Another reputable brand that makes the Kova style is Barbisio.

 

[jeffgarf]

Another reputable brand that makes the Kova style is Barbisio.

I believe Barbisio was just a brand name for licensing by the time they made Chassidish hats. They were recently produced in a factory in Colombia, but not sure where they are being licensed to now. Original Barbisio hats were (as far as Fedoras go), almost as nice as Borsalinos (the not-specifically Jewish market ones).

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Stefan, Thank you! This is highly possible -> "Other than that it sounds fancy because it's French". I found this advertisement for Ebreichsdorfer Filzhutfabrik S. & J. Fraenkel in the 1928-1929 Austrian Industry Compass that mentions "Etuihüte" but possibly misspelled as "Etuishüte" because in the directory listing it's spelled "Etuihüte".

As always, it's great to be able to benefit from your background knowledge and research: Thank you for that, Steve. Thanks also to Stefan @steur for sharing this wonderful hat – a feast for the eyes.
In this context, I realized that I'd heard the term 'Etuihüte' before, but had never thought about the origins and uses. The 'extraleichte Reise-Etuihut' reminds me of the well-known coffinbox hats – perhaps the 'Etui' is meant to be read in that context? Just a thought without any actual evidence...

 

[mayserwegener]

As always, it's great to be able to benefit from your background knowledge and research: Thank you for that, Steve. Thanks also to Stefan @steur for sharing this wonderful hat – a feast for the eyes.
In this context, I realized that I'd heard the term 'Etuihüte' before, but had never thought about the origins and uses. The 'extraleichte Reise-Etuihut' reminds me of the well-known coffinbox hats – perhaps the 'Etui' is meant to be read in that context? Just a thought without any actual evidence...

Matt, Thank you! Interesting observation but Gustav Menschel in his book "Der Hut" mentions "Etui" in regards to lighter weight Stiff Felt Hats. Also when I asked him in writing about the Fraenkel Soft Felt with "1/2 Et." he wrote "Et." was "Etui" and also mentioned weight. The use of "Etui" with German and Austrian Hats goes back to the later 19th century from what I could find. I couldn't find any examples in French or English in regards to hats. I will also check some of the books I have, to see if "Etiu" is mentioned. Could have also changed meaning overtime.

 

[mayserwegener]

J. Hückel´s Söhne "Standard", 57 cm, possibly later 1930s. This came from a Czech seller and was made for the Czech market. The black Felt has a very soft hand with a Smooth finish and is light in weight. The Form is of the time period so more sporty. There is some wear on the Band and Sweatband but the Felt is in very good condition. The Crown Tip Patch is missing but there are couple of small remnants remaining. The Smooth finish JHS Soft Felts are less common so happy to find this one.

Open Crown

 

[steur]

J. Hückel´s Söhne "Standard", 57 cm, possibly later 1930s. This came from a Czech seller and was made for the Czech market. The black Felt has a very soft hand with a Smooth finish and is light in weight. The Form is of the time period so more sporty. There is some wear on the Band and Sweatband but the Felt is in very good condition. The Crown Tip Patch is missing but there are couple of small remnants remaining. The Smooth finish JHS Soft Felts are less common so happy to find this one.

Open Crown

Cool find, Steve. Looks to be in good condition as well. Curious about the 5 1/2-57 size indication.

 

[mayserwegener]

Cool find, Steve. Looks to be in good condition as well. Curious about the 5 1/2-57 size indication.

Stefan, The FP 5 1/2 was the block size and Hat Size was one less. I researched this awhile ago. Will have to look for that.

 

[jeffgarf]

Hückel Aero purchased from France (originally sold in Switzerland). Looked for the Aero here and on @mayserwegener's website and found the same, a 1930's era, lined hat posted here in 2023. This one is unlined, but I am assuming a similar vintage(?). As a bonus, the seller sent it in a vintage Eichenberger (see Swiss hatmakers) hat box, which goes very well with the Eichenberger I have posted about in that sub.

 

[mayserwegener]

Hückel Aero purchased from France (originally sold in Switzerland). Looked for the Aero here and on @mayserwegener's website and found the same, a 1930's era, lined hat posted here in 2023. This one is unlined, but I am assuming a similar vintage(?). As a bonus, the seller sent it in a vintage Eichenberger (see Swiss hatmakers) hat box, which goes very well with the Eichenberger I have posted about in that sub.

View attachment 708953 View attachment 708950 View attachment 708949 View attachment 708951 View attachment 708952 View attachment 708954 View attachment 708955

Jeff, That is a fantastic find! "Aero" are less common. It's possibly a bit earlier than the "Standard" I just posted and has the Crown Tip patches. Also has higher quality components.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Hückel Aero purchased from France (originally sold in Switzerland). Looked for the Aero here and on @mayserwegener's website and found the same, a 1930's era, lined hat posted here in 2023. This one is unlined, but I am assuming a similar vintage(?). As a bonus, the seller sent it in a vintage Eichenberger (see Swiss hatmakers) hat box, which goes very well with the Eichenberger I have posted about in that sub.

View attachment 708953 View attachment 708950 View attachment 708949 View attachment 708951 View attachment 708952 View attachment 708954 View attachment 708955

Indeed a great find: Congrats, Jeff!

 

[steur]

Hückel Aero purchased from France (originally sold in Switzerland). Looked for the Aero here and on @mayserwegener's website and found the same, a 1930's era, lined hat posted here in 2023. This one is unlined, but I am assuming a similar vintage(?). As a bonus, the seller sent it in a vintage Eichenberger (see Swiss hatmakers) hat box, which goes very well with the Eichenberger I have posted about in that sub.

View attachment 708953 View attachment 708950 View attachment 708949 View attachment 708951 View attachment 708952 View attachment 708954 View attachment 708955

Have to echo what the others have said: fantastic find!

 

[mayserwegener]

Hückel Weilheim "Derby", 57 1/2 cm, possibly late 1950s. Great form and the felt finish is fantastic. Also in mint condition.

Open Crown

 

[jeffgarf]

Hückel Weilheim "Derby", 57 1/2 cm, possibly late 1950s. Great form and the felt finish is fantastic. Also in mint condition.

Open Crown

Beautiful and in great condition.

 

[mayserwegener]

Beautiful and in great condition.

Jeff, Thank you!