Helldiver discovered in San Diego's Lower Otay Resevoir

[Story]

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jul/21/search-fish-unearths-history/?metro&zIndex=135432

San Diego angler Duane Johnson couldn't believe what he spotted as he was idling across Lower Otay Reservoir.

“I turned to my fishing buddy and said, ‘That looks like a plane,’ ” Johnson said.

He downloaded the images from his Humminbird Fish Finder and shared them with Bryan Norris, reservoir keeper for the city of San Diego's water department. An investigation began and now Johnson's incredible discovery in February has led divers to uncover a Navy bomber that was forced into a water landing 64 years ago.

On Thursday, Navy divers from Coronado, ranger-divers for the city's lakes system and a private company from Chicago experienced in recovering aircraft from the Great Lakes will try to see whether the SB2C-4 Helldiver is worth salvaging.

 

[Atterbury Dodd]

I hope it is worth saving. that would be neat.

 

[Fletch]

Undoubtedly a training accident of some kind, as the SB2C was no longer in combat service. A badly obsolete aircraft even by early wartime (early models were actually biplanes), it was popularly known as "Son of a B!tch Second Class."

 

[Diamondback]

No, Fletch, you're confusing the SB2C in part with the original SBC, latter being the bipe. The only WWII usage I recall for the SBC's was briefly aboard CV-8 Hornet as she worked up and steamed for the West Coast--probably because they didn't have enough SB2U's or SBD's to equip her with a "fully modernized" airgroup at that time.

The SB2C was a very advanced aircraft, at first too advanced for manufacturing and pilots too keep up--it took all of '43 and '44 to catch up, but once it all was figured out the Beast in skilled hands is not something I'd want gunning for me... but it's not what I'd wanna learn to fly on either.

 

[Story]

Undoubtedly a training accident of some kind.."

Correct, there.

Based on preliminary photos and video, the Navy traced the aircraft's history to May 28, 1945. The bomber's engine failed during a practice mission and pilot E.D. Frazar made a wheels-up, flaps-down forced landing. He and gunner Joseph M. Metz swam to shore.

Frazar died in 1979. It's unclear whether Metz is alive.

Amid the many plane crashes in World War II, Navy officials decided to leave the aircraft in the lake. Now they would like to recover it because the naval aviation museum recently had to transfer its only Helldiver to another museum. Fewer than six SB2C-4 Helldivers are known to exist.

The rest of the article, including museums thumb-wrestling for the remains.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stor...eum-wants-wwii-plane-too/?metro&zIndex=137441

 

[dhermann1]

No, Fletch, you're confusing the SB2C in part with the original SBC, latter being the bipe. The only WWII usage I recall for the SBC's was briefly aboard CV-8 Hornet as she worked up and steamed for the West Coast--probably because they didn't have enough SB2U's or SBD's to equip her with a "fully modernized" airgroup at that time.

The SB2C was a very advanced aircraft, at first too advanced for manufacturing and pilots too keep up--it took all of '43 and '44 to catch up, but once it all was figured out the Beast in skilled hands is not something I'd want gunning for me... but it's not what I'd wanna learn to fly on either.

Wasn't part of the problem over runs and production delays at Curtis? I seem to remember that Curtis's political connections kept the project going, even tho the company was performing poorly with the plane's development.

 

[Diamondback]

Dan, the largest reason the Helldiver survived aside from the Dauntless's age is 'cause its competitor the Brewster SB2A Buccaneer was such a stinking heap of crap--aside from the ones L-L'ed to the Brits, all were scrapped before the end of the war. The one at NMNA Pensacola was pieced together from two to three wreck--the guy who did the build's a friend from another board.

The Helldiver's production delays were largely caused by unforeseen design-flaws, weight increases and mission-creep--you can always count on the Brassholes to demand your product do more than designed and at no additional cost to rework it --reminds me of a Scripture that Halsey had flashed across Third Fleet when he heard about it from a destroyer that had been under sustained air attack...
"Jesus... the same yesterday, and today, and forever..."

Once they put a more powerful variant of the R-2800 engine on, a lot of the "overweight" issue went away, and it even made a passable torpedo-bomber in the -4 and -5 variants.

 

[Story]

SAN DIEGO (AP) -- Salvagers have won permission to recover a World War II Navy dive bomber that has rested on the bottom of a San Diego reservoir for more than six decades.

City and state permits have been obtained for a $125,000 operation to bring up the SB2C-4 Helldiver from Lower Otay Reservoir, said Nelson Manville, a city assistant lakes manager.

The work could begin within a few weeks, with the goal of eventually displaying the plane in the National Naval Aviation Museum in Florida.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WWII_AIRPLANE_IN_LAKE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

 

[Kopf-Jaeger]

Correct me if I'm wrong but unlike the Air Force and Army I think the Navy retains ownership of their aircraft in perpetuity? I remember years ago a salvage company raised a WW2 Navy dive bomber from one of the Great Lakes. When they got it to shore the Navy stepped in and took it back. Anyone know about this. I can't remember where I read about it.

 

[SkullCowboy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but unlike the Air Force and Army I think the Navy retains ownership of their aircraft in perpetuity? I remember years ago a salvage company raised a WW2 Navy dive bomber from one of the Great Lakes. When they got it to shore the Navy stepped in and took it back. Anyone know about this. I can't remember where I read about it.

While I don't know about that specific incident, you are correct. The US Navy does indeed 'retain title' to all Navy aircraft. They get to determine who will be allowed to salvage, HOW they must salvage it, what it will be used for once salvaged, who gets it, how long they get to keep it, etc.

 

[Stearmen]

SBC-4

No, Fletch, you're confusing the SB2C in part with the original SBC, latter being the bipe. The only WWII usage I recall for the SBC's was briefly aboard CV-8 Hornet as she worked up and steamed for the West Coast--probably because they didn't have enough SB2U's or SBD's to equip her with a "fully modernized" airgroup at that time.

Almost right, VMO-151 was the last operational combat squadron to fly Curtiss SBC-4 Helldivers! They landed on Tutuila, Samoa in may of 1942, and conducted patrols until July 1943! Fortunately, the only time the Japanese attacked the Samoa islands was in January 1942 while the Marines were still at sea. A Japanese submarine shelled Tutuila, with little damage and no loss of life. Yet another aircraft I would love to find in a barn!

 

[Aristaeus]

World War II Helldiver on schedule to be raised

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/aug/16/world-war-ii-helldiver-be-raised-wednesday/:eusa_clap

 

[Fletch]

I've heard of this Lysenko fella. Last year he pulled a Douglas Dauntless out of Lake Michigan.

 

[Diamondback]

Probably the one that a buddy of mine, Rob Carleen, is spearheading the restoration work on at Pensacola.

Wonder if Rob's gonna get to do the Helldiver, or if somebody else in the shop will bag it?

 

[Story]

Retrieved.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/au...ne-raised-california-reservoir/news-breaking/

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxJOVg3m-9E

 

[Aristaeus]

Helldiver Rising- Page 1

When the airplane was operational—one of its unflattering nicknames was the “Beast”—those who flew and maintained the SB2C Helldiver would have said that the best place for an SB2C Helldiver was at the bottom of a lake. However, in 2010, with only a handful of surviving examples of the more than 5,100 Helldivers manufactured during World War II, the pulling of the wreck of one of these planes out of the Otay Reservoir in California is generating much excitement around the museum, the plane destined to fill a hole in the collection created when the SB2C-5 Helldiver on loan to the museum for many years was recalled by the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum for display in its new Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center.

http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/getdoc/9fd86cd2-40a3-4d11-a768-2f5205355b96/default.aspx

 

[Aristaeus]

At the Naval Air Museum today.

 

[DesertDan]

That is very cool! This plane crashed on the same day as my birthday.
I built a couple of models of the Helldiver when I was a kid and really into the hobby.