Help with a Panama please

[deadlyhandsome]

Montecristi and Cuenca (kwayn-ka) are the two primary centers of panama hat production and export in Ecuador. Montecristi is on the coast, and Cuenca is in the Andes Mountains. Better hats come from Montecristi - more hats come from Cuenca. Many (and by that, I mean most) hats labeled as Montecristi are actually Cuenca in quality, but since they are made in the city of Montecristi the hat is often labeled as genuine Montecristi for place of manufacture. Therefore, confusion is rampant because Montecristi can be used for quality or location of manufacture.

Montecristi hats are very well made. It will take a master weaver months to weave one hat body. They tend to go for high dollar. Prices start around $500 for the lesser hats and have been known to go up to $25,000. (That’s not a misprint). The average cost I’ve seen is about $1,000. There are very few sellers of the Montecristi (quality) Panama hats. One of the most trusted and best known is Brent Black. Other dealers/sellers want to compete, but Brent makes several trips each year and has some of the best weavers contracted. Anything and everything you ever wanted to know about Montecristi hats can be found at www.brentblack.com. Montecristi hats are sold by other dealers but in limited quantities and qualities.

Montecristi Panama hats are hard to find second hand - most people who have one don’t let it go. Remember; patience is a virtue, research is vital, and don’t forget luck. Armed with those three a person may be fortunate enough to get a really nice Montecristi at a fraction of the cost. I was fortunate this past winter, and it didn’t just happen once. Lighting struck six times.

I’m glad to bow to your knowledge on Panama hats, but isn’t the weave also different? There are a few types of weaves and it’s not all about the city of origin…or so I’ve come to understand.

 

[Yamahana]

Yes sir, I am a size 7 1/4.
I’ve been looking for 7 1/4 panamas on eBay for around a month now, and it seems I found a nice deal this morning in my saved searches. It’s a like new Del Monico wide brim genuine Montecristi, and it was listed for $39, so I immediately bought it as it had been listed within the last couple of hours. I think it was a far better choice than the previous two hats I featured!

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Send me your mailing address in a PM. I’m sure I’ve got something in your size I can pass on to you. Be glad to help out a cash strapped 16 yr old gentleman just getting started.

 

[BrianB]

Mr. Hughes and Eric, that was an outstanding description. I’ve heard Cuenca being passed around and now this makes sense. Brent has a good question, I have seen a few different weaves so it would be interesting to tie some geography to that.

Yamahana, that’s incredibly thoughtful of you! I’ll contact you shortly, and I’ll be glad to learn about your interest in this hobby and chat. I’m blown away.

Thanks again gentlemen for your input!

Brian

 

[Rmccamey]

I'm only 16 yrs old, too, Bill, and I could use a good Panama!

Send me your mailing address in a PM. I’m sure I’ve got something in your size I can pass on to you. Be glad to help out a cash strapped 16 yr old gentleman just getting started.

 

[Edward]

Send me your mailing address in a PM. I’m sure I’ve got something in your size I can pass on to you. Be glad to help out a cash strapped 16 yr old gentleman just getting started.

THere really ought to be an 'applause' option in the available 'reactions' with the Lounge software.

 

[Bill Hughes]

I’m glad to bow to your knowledge on Panama hats, but isn’t the weave also different? There are a few types of weaves and it’s not all about the city of origin…or so I’ve come to understand.

Brent, you are being overly generous in your description of my Panama knowledge.

But, yes. The "Brisa" weave in my experience is the most common I've seen on what we would normally call a Montecristi. The "Cuenca" weave is probably most seen on Cuenca hats. But I don't know if that could be used in and of itself to differentiate between what is known as a fine Montecristi vs a Cuenca. Another issue is that a finely woven "Cuenca" looks and feels a lot like a Montecristi. And it is also my understanding that times are changing in Ecuador. Weavers are moving around to different locations. Brent Black is even selling some finely woven Cuenca hats on his site.

Does a true Montecristi only have a Brisa weave? I honestly don't know. But that's all I've ever held in my hands. A really nice finely & tightly woven Cuenca is hard to distinguish from a Montecristi. At least it is for me.

 

[Dotneck]

Montecristi and Cuenca (kwayn-ka) are the two primary centers of panama hat production and export in Ecuador. Montecristi is on the coast, and Cuenca is in the Andes Mountains. Better hats come from Montecristi - more hats come from Cuenca. Many (and by that, I mean most) hats labeled as Montecristi are actually Cuenca in quality, but since they are made in the city of Montecristi the hat is often labeled as genuine Montecristi for place of manufacture. Therefore, confusion is rampant …<snip>…One of the most trusted and best known is Brent Black. Other dealers/sellers want to compete, but Brent makes several trips each year and has some of the best weavers contracted. Anything and everything you ever wanted to know about Montecristi hats can be found at www.brentblack.com. Montecristi hats are sold by other dealers but in limited quantities and qualities.

so are the Montecristo hats sold by Panama Hats Direct actually Montecristo hats?

 

[belfastboy]

Brent, you are being overly generous in your description of my Panama knowledge.

But, yes. The "Brisa" weave in my experience is the most common I've seen on what we would normally call a Montecristi. The "Cuenca" weave is probably most seen on Cuenca hats. But I don't know if that could be used in and of itself to differentiate between what is known as a fine Montecristi vs a Cuenca. Another issue is that a finely woven "Cuenca" looks and feels a lot like a Montecristi. And it is also my understanding that times are changing in Ecuador. Weavers are moving around to different locations. Brent Black is even selling some finely woven Cuenca hats on his site.

Does a true Montecristi only have a Brisa weave? I honestly don't know. But that's all I've ever held in my hands. A really nice finely & tightly woven Cuenca is hard to distinguish from a Montecristi. At least it is for me.

I just noticed on the Panama Hats Direct site he sells both Cuena and Montecristi super finos for the same price. I am temped to buy a Montecristi so I have a comparison with the Cuenca super fino I just received.

 

[Bill Hughes]

so are the Montecristo hats sold by Panama Hats Direct actually Montecristo hats?

I have no first hand experience with PHD. But looking at the site - they all look like Cuenca hats to me. But I could easily be wrong.

I currently have 7 Brent Black Montecristi hats. The weave ranges from 440 to 1200 WPI. The most I paid for one is $225. They are all used but all are a better weave than what PHD shows on their site. I have 7 more Montecristi hats that are even better in quality. Again, all are used. I have 2 Ecuadorian Panama Hats from the 1950s that are much better in weave quality than what I see on the PHD site. I paid $29 for one and $77 on the other.

All I'm trying to get at is - really good Panama Hats, both Cuenca and Montecristi, can be had at very good prices. It just takes time and patience.

 

[belfastboy]

I have no first hand experience with PHD. But looking at the site - they all look like Cuenca hats to me. But I could easily be wrong.

I currently have 7 Brent Black Montecristi hats. The weave ranges from 440 to 1200 WPI. The most I paid for one is $225. They are all used but all are a better weave than what PHD shows on their site. I have 7 more Montecristi hats that are even better in quality. Again, all are used. I have 2 Ecuadorian Panama Hats from the 1950s that are much better in weave quality than what I see on the PHD site. I paid $29 for one and $77 on the other.

All I'm trying to get at is - really good Panama Hats, both Cuenca and Montecristi, can be had at very good prices. It just takes time and patience.

I understand. It is just that I don't have the time nor the patience. Mike NW Hat's is about the best quality I am willing to wear/spend. Anything higher priced than that I fear damaging it in our rainy climate. I thought for $200 for a PHD Montecristi it would be a worthy exploration.

 

[BobHufford]

It just takes time and patience.

And the right head size. I have had a dozen or more vintage Panamas pass through my hands, but only two that are my size. Neither one in very good shape.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I have no first hand experience with PHD. But looking at the site - they all look like Cuenca hats to me. But I could easily be wrong.

I currently have 7 Brent Black Montecristi hats. The weave ranges from 440 to 1200 WPI. The most I paid for one is $225. They are all used but all are a better weave than what PHD shows on their site. I have 7 more Montecristi hats that are even better in quality. Again, all are used. I have 2 Ecuadorian Panama Hats from the 1950s that are much better in weave quality than what I see on the PHD site. I paid $29 for one and $77 on the other.

All I'm trying to get at is - really good Panama Hats, both Cuenca and Montecristi, can be had at very good prices. It just takes time and patience.

I’ve had maybe three old Ecuadorian Hat Co. Panama hats come through my hands. I’ve also had a few Stetsons and Dobbs Panama hats from the 1950s or earlier make a short visit at my place before moving on (all too small for me). I’ve also had one Optimo Panama and two Newt (made by Optimo) Panama hats, two Montecristi Hat Works custom Panama hats, and at least two Brent Black Panama hats. The top end PHD hats I’ve seen have been as tight and consistent of a weave as any of the sampling of the other brands I’ve seen, and better than most. Of course, the better weaves are only found on their more expensive hats. What PHD doesn’t offer is the best blocking and better quality sweatbands. Although, the last two PHD hats I received had much improved sweatbands, they just are not as good as what I’m used to on felt hats.

For some reason I’m hard on my straw hats. I personally can’t see spending a lot of a Panama hat based on my track record. I have a couple decent ones, but I much prefer the resiliency of Milan…but I also want a well ventilated crown. Cheaper western “straw” hats see the most use with me. If I could learn to be careful maybe I could have nicer things.

 

[Bill Hughes]

I also find I typically do better finding good straw hats in the winter months.

 

[Jose Antonio]

Mi experiencia con Domingo Carranza es muy buena.

 

[The truth]

I’m glad to bow to your knowledge on Panama hats, but isn’t the weave also different? There are a few types of weaves and it’s not all about the city of origin…or so I’ve come to understand.

Hi if you really want a genuine Montecristi Panama Hat you can visit this website called Panamahatsdepot.com they can custom made the hats and order straight from the weavers and I heard that the person that runs it is William Ramírez ex manager of PHD.

 

[The truth]

so are the Montecristo hats sold by Panama Hats Direct actually Montecristo hats?

If you are looking for a real Montecristi Panama hat there is this page called Panamahatsdepot.com this people sell genuine Montecristi hats and you also can custom made your hat since they work with the weavers. The person that runs the business now it is William Ramírez ex manager of PHD. Anyway you can take a look at his website. Greetings

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hi if you really want a genuine Montecristi Panama Hat you can visit this website called Panamahatsdepot.com they can custom made the hats and order straight from the weavers and I heard that the person that runs it is William Ramírez ex manager of PHD.

I don’t find it hard to find genuine Montecristi hats. What I find hard finding is blocking, including crown height, that I want. I’m also only interested in semi calado Panama hats. The hats I’m seeing at Panamahatsdepot don’t look like what I’m after, or any different from PHD. Is there a reason you’re advocating them over Panama Hats Direct? I’m not going to consider another Panama hat until I can get the proportions and style I want…and I’m not flexible on the semi calado venting.

 

[The truth]

I don’t find it hard to find genuine Montecristi hats. What I find hard finding is blocking, including crown height, that I want. I’m also only interested in semi calado Panama hats. The hats I’m seeing at Panamahatsdepot don’t look like what I’m after, or any different from PHD. Is there a reason you’re advocating them over Panama Hats Direct? I’m not going to consider another Panama hat until I can get the proportions and style I want…and I’m not flexible on the semi calado venting.

But you can talk to them even sending a picture of what you want and they can build it for you.

 

[The truth]

But you can talk to them even sending a picture of what you want and they can build it for you.

Anyway just a suggestion. Have a great day or rest of the day

 

[JeffOYB]

It's been awhile! So what's the latest in good, affordable Panama hats? (Or hats in general?) It looks like PHD might be having issues. They seem to have almost no inventory at this time, for one thing. And I see a couple posts here hinting at issues. New players seem possibly on the scene. (William's shop?) I loved my biz w PHD! I so appreciated seeing pics of the actual hat. ...So what's the hot tip? My hats are getting old. I have needs! Thanks!