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Is Crown Taper an Italian Style?
- Thread starter MAB1
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- 11,106
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- My mother's basement
Yeah, you see it on many (most, maybe) of the styles offered by most of the major manufacturers, not just the Italian ones, in recent decades.
And you're right, most of the posters here don't care for a tapered crown. That's because it's often an indication that a once straight-sided hat has shrunk and will never look "right" again unless it is reblocked, which, in this age of one truly qualified hatter per, oh, 10 million population, can be a challenge.
And it's also because many (most?) of the posters here are vintage enthusiasts, with a particular enthusiasm for the styles of the 1930s and '40s.
Some people prefer tapered crowns. And some people (most?) wouldn't know the difference, unless it was pointed out to them. But I can tell you that the hats of mine that are likeliest to provoke comments of the "nice hat" variety are the ones with tallish, untapered crowns. Those offering the comments probably couldn't say just what it is about the hat that sets it apart from the run of the hats they see these days, but they know there is SOMETHING more appealing about it, something that just looks more "right," you know.
And you're right, most of the posters here don't care for a tapered crown. That's because it's often an indication that a once straight-sided hat has shrunk and will never look "right" again unless it is reblocked, which, in this age of one truly qualified hatter per, oh, 10 million population, can be a challenge.
And it's also because many (most?) of the posters here are vintage enthusiasts, with a particular enthusiasm for the styles of the 1930s and '40s.
Some people prefer tapered crowns. And some people (most?) wouldn't know the difference, unless it was pointed out to them. But I can tell you that the hats of mine that are likeliest to provoke comments of the "nice hat" variety are the ones with tallish, untapered crowns. Those offering the comments probably couldn't say just what it is about the hat that sets it apart from the run of the hats they see these days, but they know there is SOMETHING more appealing about it, something that just looks more "right," you know.
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Spellflower
Practically Family
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- 511
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- Brooklyn
There's also the COW connection- Indy's hat is straight-sided, no taper, so the people who come to fedoras through Indy also don't want taper.
Personally, I prefer straight sides, though I'm not an Indy fan. I just think they look cooler in most cases. Borsalinos do seem to be a notable exception, as I've seen plenty with some taper (in pics here on the Lounge) that are still great looking hats.
Personally, I prefer straight sides, though I'm not an Indy fan. I just think they look cooler in most cases. Borsalinos do seem to be a notable exception, as I've seen plenty with some taper (in pics here on the Lounge) that are still great looking hats.
Sorry guys, I think we must have been posting at the same moment.
I know what you mean about a straight tall crown.
But, I swear... my favorite Itailian hats have some taper. Especially the wide brims like what Fellini wore, years ago. That man was the epitomy of cool.
I know what you mean about a straight tall crown.
But, I swear... my favorite Itailian hats have some taper. Especially the wide brims like what Fellini wore, years ago. That man was the epitomy of cool.
- Messages
- 11,106
- Location
- My mother's basement
MAB1 said:What???
Is that a stupid question? I don't think so.
I thought it was legit.
I'd just like to say that my more tapered hats are Italian styled.
I don't think anyone so much as suggested that your question was stupid or not "legit."
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- My mother's basement
OK then, MAB, I see we're all back on the same page again. Cool.
Yeah, I see some new Italian hats that, in terms of overall quality, do seem just a cut above most of what the other mass manufacturers are making these days, but I don't buy because the crowns are a tad too tapered to suit my taste. (Say that three times fast.) But I can see why some people like 'em. I actually think they look just fine on some guys, and even OK on me, but, you know, I'm far from the typical consumer.
A few years ago our local hats-only retailer was selling a budget-priced line of no-name Italian-made hats. They were of fairly inexpensive manufacture, with cloth sweatbands and no liners, but the felt was real nice, as modern factory-hat felt goes. I bought one, with a widish brim and a creased-at-the-factory center dent with fedora pinch. And yup, the crown had significant taper, but it looked OK, you know. I eventually used it as barter material.
Yeah, I see some new Italian hats that, in terms of overall quality, do seem just a cut above most of what the other mass manufacturers are making these days, but I don't buy because the crowns are a tad too tapered to suit my taste. (Say that three times fast.) But I can see why some people like 'em. I actually think they look just fine on some guys, and even OK on me, but, you know, I'm far from the typical consumer.
A few years ago our local hats-only retailer was selling a budget-priced line of no-name Italian-made hats. They were of fairly inexpensive manufacture, with cloth sweatbands and no liners, but the felt was real nice, as modern factory-hat felt goes. I bought one, with a widish brim and a creased-at-the-factory center dent with fedora pinch. And yup, the crown had significant taper, but it looked OK, you know. I eventually used it as barter material.
I'm just asking because I'm begining to think it's a style thing.
Some hats look good in that Peak-ed mode. The popular kid's hats of today as in shorty brim trilby's have that look.
I for one would never want to criticize any popular hat style. My face is too fat for shorty brims but... they look great on the kids that are bringing the hat back.
I think that it's wonderful that kids are wearing hats again. I just wish they had chosen an earlier generation to emulate.
Some hats look good in that Peak-ed mode. The popular kid's hats of today as in shorty brim trilby's have that look.
I for one would never want to criticize any popular hat style. My face is too fat for shorty brims but... they look great on the kids that are bringing the hat back.
I think that it's wonderful that kids are wearing hats again. I just wish they had chosen an earlier generation to emulate.
Marcus Brody
Familiar Face
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- 68
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- San Francisco
Yeah, I do think there's some bias from COW that all hats must be straight edged, but's also the case that a lot fedoras were like that in the earlier period anyways. It wasn't until I was older that I even realized that Indy's hat changed every film, but I somehow did have the idea of a hat as being fairly straight sided when I was kid anyways. I also think it's just something about proportions. Something about tall fedoras (another favorite here) with taper just doesn't look right, but it looks ok on shorter crowns.
Fletch
I'll Lock Up
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The tapered crown is easier to do, because it doesn're require so much stretching; it's cheaper, because it can be done with lower quality felt that would rip apart if stretched further; and it helps disguise the natural taper that occurs with shrinkage.
IOW, this is another case of style losing out to economy, as what was once a staple of the wardrobe becomes a more standardized, specialty item.
IOW, this is another case of style losing out to economy, as what was once a staple of the wardrobe becomes a more standardized, specialty item.
Stan
A-List Customer
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- 336
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- Raleigh, NC
Hi,
I don't have an aversion, per se, to some crown taper. I have a few hats that have some, and a few that don't. They all wear OK.
One of the tapered ones is a fairly modern Scala. I say fairly modern as I bought it new a few months back, but it's a sized (7 1/8) fur felt and not a S/M/L one. Someone here mentioned that indicated that it was an older Scala made in Hungary (I think) and not a really new one made in China.
Not that it matters, really. I think of it as a 'new' hat as opposed to a 'vintage' one from the 1950's, say. Anyway, the thing has quite a bit of crown taper, yet it looks OK and doesn't seem to a decent amount of comments when I wear it.
I have a vintage Borsalino from the 1950's and it has some taper, but not as much as the far newer Scala does. I know it has some taper due to shrinkage, as I had to stretch it from a size 7 back to it's original 7 1/8. Now, how much of that taper is original and how much from stretching, I cannot say.
I have a vintage Champ that has no taper to speak of, and it's also shrunk, but from a 7 1/4 down to a 7 1/8. See, I learned something there. Go for the older hats one size larger!
I have a vintage Sterson that also has no taper, but, again it was originally a larger size. It was thought to be a 7 1/8 by a previous owner, but it really started out life as a 7 3/8. It also started out life as an Open Road, with the alpine crown style, and was converted into a fedora style, also by the PO. So, who knows with this one? It shows no taper, but then it's oversized enough that I had to pad it down and then it was reworked to boot.
I know that the custom hats I have on order will be in the older style, with taller untapered crowns and wider brims than is the current commercial styling.
All for whatever it's worth to you.....
Stan
I don't have an aversion, per se, to some crown taper. I have a few hats that have some, and a few that don't. They all wear OK.
One of the tapered ones is a fairly modern Scala. I say fairly modern as I bought it new a few months back, but it's a sized (7 1/8) fur felt and not a S/M/L one. Someone here mentioned that indicated that it was an older Scala made in Hungary (I think) and not a really new one made in China.
Not that it matters, really. I think of it as a 'new' hat as opposed to a 'vintage' one from the 1950's, say. Anyway, the thing has quite a bit of crown taper, yet it looks OK and doesn't seem to a decent amount of comments when I wear it.
I have a vintage Borsalino from the 1950's and it has some taper, but not as much as the far newer Scala does. I know it has some taper due to shrinkage, as I had to stretch it from a size 7 back to it's original 7 1/8. Now, how much of that taper is original and how much from stretching, I cannot say.
I have a vintage Champ that has no taper to speak of, and it's also shrunk, but from a 7 1/4 down to a 7 1/8. See, I learned something there. Go for the older hats one size larger!
I have a vintage Sterson that also has no taper, but, again it was originally a larger size. It was thought to be a 7 1/8 by a previous owner, but it really started out life as a 7 3/8. It also started out life as an Open Road, with the alpine crown style, and was converted into a fedora style, also by the PO. So, who knows with this one? It shows no taper, but then it's oversized enough that I had to pad it down and then it was reworked to boot.
I know that the custom hats I have on order will be in the older style, with taller untapered crowns and wider brims than is the current commercial styling.
All for whatever it's worth to you.....
Stan
Fletch
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,848
- Location
- Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
I can't wear an Italian taper. With my large size and full face it turns me into a pinhead. I have a very nice Borsalino Bellagio in a rare color, sage green, that just sits around because as much as I like it, I just cannot get past the taper.
