Life without moderators

[Twitch]

After my surprise to find this topic still viable after 4 days I read many comments about expectations of various topics being closed. As I said I feel a site's tone reflects its moderation. Very liberal moderation will allow ongoing bickering amongst patrons at times while conservative moderation will stop things after one surly post. Damed if you do, damned if you don't I guess. It's hard to make the right call all the time on any subject in the virtual or brick and mortar world.

With the web trolls out there that invade sites explicitely to pick fights this place does a pretty good job of keeping them out. I sure would not be here otherwise to see endless arguing and bickering. It's tough to categorize a spirited discussion and one that takes a personal tone as a moderator right away.

I sometimes wonder exactly what verbiage simulated a moderator to close a topic here as I wasn't offended by the dialogue. Perhaps someone else was or would have been. Of course a site can't exist to placate only the most thin skinned or weakest link in a chain. But when a topic is closed I simply shrug and move on. Frankly I don't really care why a moderator closed it or what they found potentially offensive.

By that same token I avoid topics that don't interest me. No sense in reading boring (to me) stuff. Some people get involved in topics they have no interest in and chastise participants sometimes and complain about the theme.

So do the mods here do good? Yeah they do. You wouldn't like the place if the web trolls were allowed to reign free, trust me.

 

[Smithy]

Very well and eloquently said Twitch.

I'm happy there's moderation here, my hat/fedora/cap goes off to the bartenders here :eusa_clap

 

[dhermann1]

Twitch: I assume that when you say "liberal" and "conservative" you DON'T mean them in their political sense, but in their more literal sense. If so, I'm with you. I like the "conservative" style of FL, even tho I'd describe my politics as not exactly that.

 

[KittyT]

There have been things that people have said that have really bothered me because they have been really sexist, but because those opinions are "traditional" and "conservative" (therefore family-friendly, perhaps?) no moderator bats an eye. However, I feel like when stating my opposing opinion I have to be sure to respond in a really polite manner because my opinions aren't traditional, and I feel that I may be looked down upon for them. I just think it's unfair that some people have to choose their words carefully and others can just say whatever they want, as long as that 'whatever' falls in line with a certain belief system. Not all of us adhere to a traditional set of beliefs.

Thank you, Pigeon Toe. I couldn't agree more with you. Viewpoints here are definitely more traditional and I think the FL does a really good job of alienating those of us who do not share conservative/traditional viewpoints.

 

[RedPop4]

Thank you, Pigeon Toe. I couldn't agree more with you. Viewpoints here are definitely more traditional and I think the FL does a really good job of alienating those of us who do not share conservative/traditional viewpoints.

Kitty, I'd disagree with you a bit. I find this board, especially, the Observation Bar, to have MANY younger folks dressing and acting vintage yet espousing some very non-traditional values. In fact, some of those values seem to clash quite markedly with what was considered, or conventionally thought during your beloved "Golden Era" (collective your.) At least this is how I've viewed it and perceived it reading here over the last year and a half.

On the whole, I think the moderators here have it about right. I've seen things locked or moved that I didn't think should have been. Again, this is just observation, my memory is such that I couldn't point to one, but that's just me. And I'm pretty certain there are people over at Cigar Weekly who think the same thing of our moderation. Yes we ALL make mistakes in moderation but looking at it from side-to-side and top-to-bottom, mods. here do a good job.

 

[Twitch]

lol dhermann1 of course it's not political. But it's a great illustration of how words in common use in the English language become taken in one context only. "His liberal use of cologne made my eyes water." "In the fire fight my use of ammo was very conservative." We discuss liberal and conservative dress unendingly around here and no one is offended by the words or mistakened that the thrust of the reply is anything but innocent.

We're in pretty goofy shape if we assign only one definition to words or phrases. But see, that's how misconceptions begin in an individual's interpretation of certain words or phrases. Unless we are over expressive and wordy we can be taken in another context. And that's where it is tough in moderation. Did someone have a veiled meaning in a phrase? Was a there a double entendre on purpose? Will some one be offended by being alluded to as liberal or conservative, or humurous, or angry or chubby or skinny?

Idda know meybe we should use more danged emoticons since a phrase such as "whaddya trying to be a wise guy?" is a bit different than "whaddya trying to be a wise guy? lol" Am I unintendedly offending someone if I don't punctuate a sentence with emoticons properly so the reader can preceive my state of conscience at any given time?

That's fine to a point but if people have to tip toe through their typing to validate their state of emotions in every sentence we're in bad shape. If I say "frankly, I don't give a hoot about anyone's political leanings" how does that sound? Am I mad, joking, tongue-in-cheek, kinda sour or what?

 

[RedPop4]

The failure of the printed word, in a fast-moving environment that borders on the conversational, is what I say.

 

[Dr Doran]

I'm with MK and Panama on this one, particularly Panama's note, "I'm glad politics is banned here, as well as overt obscenity, because that makes this a classy place to visit. If someone wants to talk about politics, they can go to a political forum... same with animal rights, gun control, etc." I for one greatly appreciate the job the moderators are doing.

The first time I met MK in person was in Portland, Oregon. My wife and I were visiting my parents and MK was kind enough to invite us out for a drink. At the time I had no idea that politics had ever been allowed on the Lounge. I congratulated MK for running a polite forum without politics. He said that it had been heartbreaking for him when he had to ban politics and that he still felt bad about it. He did not WANT to ban politics but after much thought it became NECESSARY because things were getting too out of hand. This is the attitude the man has, and this is the attitude that the bartenders have, for the most part, as well. It is a tough line to walk and after certain experiences it was decided to err on the side of caution. I utterly respect that.

I know that one rather raunchy post I wrote was deleted. No problem; it was crude. And there may have been others; I haven't noticed. The Fedora Lounge is a place I can go where there is a feeling of manners, style, and (dare I say it without ruffling feathers?) class. I like that. If I want to hear about how opening doors for women is a sexist plot of "the patriarchy" I can walk down to campus and hear that sort of thing there. I can call PETA or talk to my veg friends if I want to discuss animal rights. I can go to Sproul Plaza any day if I want to take part in an anti-war demonstration. I can discuss Israel and Palestine any time with any of my fervent Zionist friends or my pro-Arab acquaintances. I wouldn't invite them to the same party unless certain rules of discourse were adhered to. And that party wouldn't be at the Fedora Lounge. It would be somewhere else.

Recently I read a news article on a Polish cultural site about Israeli kids on a tour of Poland who were acting rude to Poles. The many many pages of comments were unbelievably nasty. Several (Jewish and non-Jewish) persons spoke reasonably and then things got uglier and uglier. Anti-Polish comments and anti-Semitic comments. It was just terrible. It reminded me of how easy it is for a conversation to get out of hand. Hence the need for moderation.

As for the question of whose forum this is: that's easy, in my opinion. It's MK's forum. He started it. He can close it down any time he wants. This is an amazing place and I feel lucky to be here.

As for certain issues being political and how one side feels it needs to shut itself down and that's not fair: well, almost ANYTHING can be moral or political. Deckard just posted something about proper butcher shops. I would find it terribly tiresome to hear a constant refrain of "well, do you ever think about the ANIMALS SUFFERING? How could anyone possibly eat meat?" (For the record, I do think about it: see my post there. But I stil eat it.) Almost anything can be construed as political or moral, and banning such things is the best way to keep everything civil. I go to Berkeley, and it gets very very annoying very fast to have a "political" (read radical leftist vegan radical feminist environmentalist) retort to almost everything ever said in any seminar. To have that here would invite long threads critiquing the Frankfurt School, second-wave feminism, and the disinclination to eat meat as practiced by Pythagoras. I can discuss any of these topics reasonably knowledgeably, but I don't want to do it here. This is a club whose focus is aesthetics.

Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes -- this is just my two (ten? a thousand?) cents' worth.

 

[Samsa]

Doran said it best...

Without question the best post in this thread. We all enjoy coming here so much - and this forum has so many members - because it is a great example of a well run and civil forum.

 

[Dr Doran]

Without question the best post in this thread. We all enjoy coming here so much - and this forum has so many members - because it is a great example of a well run and civil forum.

Thanks, gregor! You , my good man, are NOT a "monstrous vermin"!

 

[Diamondback]

That's probably a big part of what drew me in here too, instead of my usual "pop in, post my questions, get answers, disappear into the void from which I came"--much as some here probably wish I had or would revert to that pattern.lol

When I'm on for full-contact mud-sucking, there are other boards I go to for that--FL's my "quiet place" on the Net, where I come to get away from the power-politics of many of the boards I frequent. But that's just me...

 

[Samsa]

Thanks, gregor! You , my good man, are NOT a "monstrous vermin"!

Good to know that someone got the Kafka reference!lol

 

[Dr Doran]

Good to know that someone got the Kafka reference!lol

A big fan!

 

[Benny Holiday]

Without question the best post in this thread.

Agreed. I couldn't have worded it better even if I'd had a week to do so.