LW J24 or RMC J24-L - need thoughts

[greenc]

Hi everyone,

Happy New Year, hope it's off to a terrific start. I have a question regarding the difference between the old fit RMC J24-L and a LW J24.

I'm fortunate to own the LW that I picked up pre-owned at a great deal, and I really do enjoy it but sometimes it feels like the jacket is wearing me instead of the other way around. It's very substantial, it has noticeable weight, and because the action back extends all the way down it can sometimes feel like a huge jacket.

It fits me well in the shoulders and sleeves and I'm fine with the length - Stu told me that it was a custom piece and the original Japanese owner requested it to be about 1.5 - 2" longer than the regular version.

From my understanding the old-fit RMC J24-L has similar proportions.

The only reason I'm asking is that I have the opportunity to potentially purchase the RMC at a good pre-owned price but I definitely don't need both.

I like the look of the RMC leather and the cowboy yoke - as well, the action back seems to stop about 2/3rds of the way down the back of the jacket, which I'm guessing will help with the profile.

Does anyone here have experience with both of these jackets?

The RMC looks to be thinner leather and it seems to have a bit wider of a collar spread, although that last part might just be my imagination. Again, I really like the LW but from time to time I think maybe I should have a different manufacturer, one that isn't necessarily as robust.

If anyone has firsthand thoughts I'd really appreciate it. I could just buy the RMC and then sell whichever one I like least after the fact but as we know that's a bit of a procedure so I'm trying to do as much homework as I can prior to.

Thank you all, looking forward to your thoughts. By the way, I don't ride a motorcycle so either jacket is just for the fun and look of it.

Chris

 

[AeroFan_07]

The Real McCoy's is nice and all, but there's just no mistaking a Lost Worlds Leather Jacket.

 

[Monitor]

Hi everyone,

Happy New Year, hope it's off to a terrific start. I have a question regarding the difference between the old fit RMC J24-L and a LW J24.

I'm fortunate to own the LW that I picked up pre-owned at a great deal, and I really do enjoy it but sometimes it feels like the jacket is wearing me instead of the other way around. It's very substantial, it has noticeable weight, and because the action back extends all the way down it can sometimes feel like a huge jacket.

It fits me well in the shoulders and sleeves and I'm fine with the length - Stu told me that it was a custom piece and the original Japanese owner requested it to be about 1.5 - 2" longer than the regular version.

From my understanding the old-fit RMC J24-L has similar proportions.

The only reason I'm asking is that I have the opportunity to potentially purchase the RMC at a good pre-owned price but I definitely don't need both.

I like the look of the RMC leather and the cowboy yoke - as well, the action back seems to stop about 2/3rds of the way down the back of the jacket, which I'm guessing will help with the profile.

Does anyone here have experience with both of these jackets?

The RMC looks to be thinner leather and it seems to have a bit wider of a collar spread, although that last part might just be my imagination. Again, I really like the LW but from time to time I think maybe I should have a different manufacturer, one that isn't necessarily as robust.

If anyone has firsthand thoughts I'd really appreciate it. I could just buy the RMC and then sell whichever one I like least after the fact but as we know that's a bit of a procedure so I'm trying to do as much homework as I can prior to.

Thank you all, looking forward to your thoughts. By the way, I don't ride a motorcycle so either jacket is just for the fun and look of it.

Chris

For me personally, the Real McCoy's J-24 is the finest take on this jacket that I have handled. Any version of it, really.

 

[newtojackets]

As with all jackets fit is king. I would go for whatever fits best

 

[Mandarin]

At one point, I had both . the LW was pre owned and probably custom made but I wasn't comfortable with the fit (too narrow in the shoulders). The RMC , although in steer hide, fit much better. I put the LW in the classifed and it sold immediately.

 

[greenc]

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the thoughts.

I really do like my LW, it's just that I find the hide on the RMC J24-L to be nicer - it has great texture and seems to be a deep black that I know will wear. As well, I like the western yoke, it's a nice touch.

I think I might be trying to shoehorn the LW into more of a sartorial category as opposed to appreciating it for it's technical prowess and it being an actual bit of riding kit.

I don't know if the patterns vary that much between the two, however, perhaps the difference in hide thicknesses means they drape differently.

@Bfd70 was kind enough to offer his thoughts having owned both and mentioned that the biceps of the RMC were smaller, which is what I prefer.

I'm not a very big guy - I'm almost a size 36 across the board, and I will only ever wear leather jackets with a shirt or t-shirt, I'm not one for layering - and I prefer a more close fit over one that's a bit more roomy. I'm almost certain the new cut of the RMC J24 would not fit me in the way that I'd like.

Now below are some shots I grabbed showing a look that I'm quite fond of.

I'm not as cool as any of these guys, and I could be wrong but it looks like none of them are too concerned with the ability to zip their jackets. It looks like they sized them for the shoulders and let the sleeves and chest measurements fall where they may.

My guess is this is not a terribly popular look here but I dig it. I think it shows a casualness to wearing the jacket that appeals to me. I know that sound perhaps ridiculous - removing some of the functionality by being more worried abut the shoulders than the chest - but it is how I like to wear my jackets.

That said, I know none of these men are wearing D-pocket jackets and most are likely a softer hide like lambskin, so the look may be less achievable with something more stiff. But it's certainly less achievable with really thick horse, which is why I sometimes feel the LW is a bit overpowering.

Again, I'm not that big so the shoulder fit is really important to me - if the seams hang off my shoulders or onto the head of the shoulder I feel like I'm wearing my older brother's hand-me-down.

Anyway, silly, I know, but I do thank you for your thoughts on the RMC and LW versions.

 

[Tom71]

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the thoughts.

I really do like my LW, it's just that I find the hide on the RMC J24-L to be nicer - it has great texture and seems to be a deep black that I know will wear. As well, I like the western yoke, it's a nice touch.

I think I might be trying to shoehorn the LW into more of a sartorial category as opposed to appreciating it for it's technical prowess and it being an actual bit of riding kit.

I don't know if the patterns vary that much between the two, however, perhaps the difference in hide thicknesses means they drape differently.

@Bfd70 was kind enough to offer his thoughts having owned both and mentioned that the biceps of the RMC were smaller, which is what I prefer.

I'm not a very big guy - I'm almost a size 36 across the board, and I will only ever wear leather jackets with a shirt or t-shirt, I'm not one for layering - and I prefer a more close fit over one that's a bit more roomy. I'm almost certain the new cut of the RMC J24 would not fit me in the way that I'd like.

Now below are some shots I grabbed showing a look that I'm quite fond of.

I'm not as cool as any of these guys, and I could be wrong but it looks like none of them are too concerned with the ability to zip their jackets. It looks like they sized them for the shoulders and let the sleeves and chest measurements fall where they may.

My guess is this is not a terribly popular look here but I dig it. I think it shows a casualness to wearing the jacket that appeals to me. I know that sound perhaps ridiculous - removing some of the functionality by being more worried abut the shoulders than the chest - but it is how I like to wear my jackets.

That said, I know none of these men are wearing D-pocket jackets and most are likely a softer hide like lambskin, so the look may be less achievable with something more stiff. But it's certainly less achievable with really thick horse, which is why I sometimes feel the LW is a bit overpowering.

Again, I'm not that big so the shoulder fit is really important to me - if the seams hang off my shoulders or onto the head of the shoulder I feel like I'm wearing my older brother's hand-me-down.

Anyway, silly, I know, but I do thank you for your thoughts on the RMC and LW versions.

This is helpful.

No, the current fit RMC J-24 will look nothing like this. It´s a pretty blousy cut. Even if you try to undersize, it will just look off.
I am somewhat surprised that the LW gives you the desired fit. I have not handled their J-24, but generally, I never felt that they cut their patterns particularly slim fitting.

As to the pictures: If you like the visuals, you can have a look at the Lewis Leather "Lightning". That is what Pharell Williams wears in the third picture. It´s horsehide, and I think it actually fits him (at least I have seen photos of him, wearing the jacket closed...). It´s pretty much a "British 60´s cut`, so trim fitting but otherwise boxy. The jacket is artificially aged, as there is no "teacore" in the original hide (he has quite a few heavily customised Lightnings).

I am not sure about the other photos, other than the jackets are one size too small for my own preferences, but that of course doesn´t go against you liking it.
Goldblum is seen with a lot of St. Laurent stuff, so this may be one of their "moto-inspired" jackets, but I wouldn´t know.

 

[greenc]

This is helpful.

No, the current fit RMC J-24 will look nothing like this. It´s a pretty blousy cut. Even if you try to undersize, it will just look off.
I am somewhat surprised that the LW gives you the desired fit. I have not handled their J-24, but generally, I never felt that they cut their patterns particularly slim fitting.

As to the pictures: If you like the visuals, you can have a look at the Lewis Leather "Lightning". That is what Pharell Williams wears in the third picture. It´s horsehide, and I think it actually fits him (at least I have seen photos of him, wearing the jacket closed...). It´s pretty much a "British 60´s cut`, so trim fitting but otherwise boxy. The jacket is artificially aged, as there is no "teacore" in the original hide (he has quite a few heavily customised Lightnings).

I am not sure about the other photos, other than the jackets are one size too small for my own preferences, but that of course doesn´t go against you liking it.
Goldblum is seen with a lot of St. Laurent stuff, so this may be one of their "moto-inspired" jackets, but I wouldn´t know.

Thank you @Tom71 I appreciate your thoughts. I do really like the Lewis Lightening, that's a good looking jacket. And you're right about Goldblum in St. Lauren, I know he also wears a lot of Prada - I think he's one of their ambassadors.

You're right as well about the LW not being particularly trim, although mine fits me pretty well the way that I like, it's just quite thick leather so it drapes and moves differently than a thinner hide would. There's a store here in Toronto that sells the new RMC J24 so I'm going to check it out mainly to see the hide. I'm under no illusion that it will fit anywhere close to what I'm hoping even if I size down.

I'll make photos of my LW hide and the RMC hide and attach them later - really what's getting me most interested in the RMC is the hide, the western yoke, and the overall ability of the leather to show aging. The LW seems less inclined to show heavy wear, even though it's an outstanding jacket.

We'll see. Thank you again, photos to follow.

Chris

 

[greenc]

@Tom71 I'm back from having a look at the RMC J24 at a shop here in Toronto and I must say I'm unexpectedly disappointed.

I knew going in that the smallest size they had in stock was a 38, which is already bigger than I need, and given that it's the new cut I knew it wasn't going to fit, however, I was really just there to see the leather, feel the weight of it, etc.

I was very surprised at how light the hide and the entire jacket felt - this was my first time handling a RMC J24 (I wear a RMC J100 that I love) but even still I was expecting something more robust. No disrespect intended to RMC or J24 owners, but I would have been quite upset had I made a retail purchase online without having evaluated it first.

Here in Canada with the exchange rate the J24 runs an even $4,000, which as of today is approximately $2,933 USD.

In my opinion this is a helluva lot of money for a single garment and at that price I think there are myriad options to consider. For just shy of $3,000 USD there are a ton of jackets by a variety of manufacturers someone could buy.

Again, I'm in no way trying to denigrate RMC, I really like them as a brand, and if their version of the J24 is what a person wants then absolutely do it, I'm just expressing my surprise at what I feel is a lack of weight and substance with this particular jacket at this price.

That said, I've never handled a vintage Buco J24 so I don't know if it too was a thinner weight and that RMC got it right, but as soon as I took off my LW J24 and put on the RMC it was noticeably lighter and almost too forgiving. It was just not what I was expecting.

The Shinki did smell quite wonderful, though, which I enjoyed. But the leather itself looked a bit flat and lifeless, which is interesting to me given that I went down this rabbit hole because I found a pre-owned 24L that had really lovely, grainy leather, and had only been worn a couple of times - it still has the tags on it. I've included a photo of the back to show you what I mean.

I took two photos in the dressing room - one of the RMC, and one of my LW. The LW just looks heavier sitting on the hanger.

Now this isn't a fair comparison as the LW has been worn a lot and the RMC is new, and I have no doubt that the RMC will break in and look good, but you can tell just from the photos that the leather used on each is much different.

I also decided that for me I prefer a longer J24 and/or D-pocket. The RMC is 2" shorter than the LW and when I put it on I felt like the D-pocket was a bit squished and there was a lot happening in not a lot of space. Does anyone else feel this way?

Finally, does anyone know if the older fit used a different weight of hide? Was it still light or did it have a bit more heft and/or stiffness?

I'll close it here but I'd appreciate any additional thoughts on this, thank you all again. Looking forward to speaking with you soon.

Chris

 

[Madhouse27]

Wow, your Lost Worlds looks absolutely incredible! Reading what you are looking for as far as fit and weight (and length) goes, I can’t help but think that the Eastman Roadstar might be worth taking a look at. I know this one is not quite as front page news in the J24 realm as LW and RMC (and others) but if find the pattern to be well thought-out and quite slim fitting. The horsehide is a bit matte but feels both strong and light at the same time. The lining is nice but adds almost nothing in the way or bulk or weight. The jacket wears very light. I got mine to kind of hold me over until I could swing a Lost Worlds (paying for daughter‘s college education right now) but this Roadstar has become one that I won’t part with. Not trying to derail, just adding my two cents.

 

[AeroFan_07]

Since you already own that extremely nice Lost Worlds - why not just keep wearing and loving it.
It'll last you a few lifetimes.

 

[Aloysius]

That said, I know none of these men are wearing D-pocket jackets and most are likely a softer hide like lambskin, so the look may be less achievable with something more stiff. But it's certainly less achievable with really thick horse, which is why I sometimes feel the LW is a bit overpowering.

You are never going to get this look from a J-24. It's not just the hide but the pattern too.

Get a Lewis Lightning if you want it to wear like this.

 

[greenc]

Wow, your Lost Worlds looks absolutely incredible! Reading what you are looking for as far as fit and weight (and length) goes, I can’t help but think that the Eastman Roadstar might be worth taking a look at. I know this one is not quite as front page news in the J24 realm as LW and RMC (and others) but if find the pattern to be well thought-out and quite slim fitting. The horsehide is a bit matte but feels both strong and light at the same time. The lining is nice but adds almost nothing in the way or bulk or weight. The jacket wears very light. I got mine to kind of hold me over until I could swing a Lost Worlds (paying for daughter‘s college education right now) but this Roadstar has become one that I won’t part with. Not trying to derail, just adding my two cents.

@Madhouse27 I appreciate you taking the time to write, thank you. I really think the ELMC Roadstar is a beautiful jacket, particularly in brown. It's a piece I've been interested in for a while - the trouble though is finding one pre-owned in North America in a size 36. I've seen two pieces but both were 38 and the measurements didn't work. I've got two kids of my own so scoring a deal is always top of mind.

Another piece I'd love to own one day is a Rainbow Country Allstate, which I think is fabulous. I saw one last week for a ridiculous too-good-to-be-true price but on further examination someone had cut the epaulets off, which was a real bummer. It was indeed too-good-to-be-true.

If you have a photo of your Roadstar I'd love to see it, and thank you for the kind words on my LW, it's coming along. Enjoy the weekend.

 

[greenc]

Since you already own that extremely nice Lost Worlds - why not just keep wearing and loving it.
It'll last you a few lifetimes.

@AeroFan_07 I'm guilty of not appreciating the LW for what it is, but I will say that after realizing how nice it is when compared to a brand with the cache and enthusiast appreciation that RMC has, the Lost Worlds is staying with me. You're right, it's a keeper and will be something for my son to wear when it's time.

 

[greenc]

You are never going to get this look from a J-24. It's not just the hide but the pattern too.

Get a Lewis Lightning if you want it to wear like this.

@Aloysius I think you're right, the pattern of the J24 doesn't necessarily lend itself to the examples I sent, which I'm sure is why the people in those photos were wearing more of a Perfecto style - and of course Pharell's Lightening. I think the play will be to keep the LW J24 and then in time augment that with a Perfecto-ish piece when I can find the right fit. Thank you for your thoughts, you're onto something there.

 

[ABCD]

If you're looking for a j24 that can be worn fitted why not get an original in steerhide? When broken in they drape like lambskin.

Or, like others have mentioned, the ELMC Roadstar might be an option as well with its relatively thin horsehide.

 

[Tom71]

@Tom71 I'm back from having a look at the RMC J24 at a shop here in Toronto and I must say I'm unexpectedly disappointed.

I knew going in that the smallest size they had in stock was a 38, which is already bigger than I need, and given that it's the new cut I knew it wasn't going to fit, however, I was really just there to see the leather, feel the weight of it, etc.

I was very surprised at how light the hide and the entire jacket felt - this was my first time handling a RMC J24 (I wear a RMC J100 that I love) but even still I was expecting something more robust. No disrespect intended to RMC or J24 owners, but I would have been quite upset had I made a retail purchase online without having evaluated it first.

Here in Canada with the exchange rate the J24 runs an even $4,000, which as of today is approximately $2,933 USD.

In my opinion this is a helluva lot of money for a single garment and at that price I think there are myriad options to consider. For just shy of $3,000 USD there are a ton of jackets by a variety of manufacturers someone could buy.

Again, I'm in no way trying to denigrate RMC, I really like them as a brand, and if their version of the J24 is what a person wants then absolutely do it, I'm just expressing my surprise at what I feel is a lack of weight and substance with this particular jacket at this price.

That said, I've never handled a vintage Buco J24 so I don't know if it too was a thinner weight and that RMC got it right, but as soon as I took off my LW J24 and put on the RMC it was noticeably lighter and almost too forgiving. It was just not what I was expecting.

The Shinki did smell quite wonderful, though, which I enjoyed. But the leather itself looked a bit flat and lifeless, which is interesting to me given that I went down this rabbit hole because I found a pre-owned 24L that had really lovely, grainy leather, and had only been worn a couple of times - it still has the tags on it. I've included a photo of the back to show you what I mean.

I took two photos in the dressing room - one of the RMC, and one of my LW. The LW just looks heavier sitting on the hanger.

Now this isn't a fair comparison as the LW has been worn a lot and the RMC is new, and I have no doubt that the RMC will break in and look good, but you can tell just from the photos that the leather used on each is much different.

I also decided that for me I prefer a longer J24 and/or D-pocket. The RMC is 2" shorter than the LW and when I put it on I felt like the D-pocket was a bit squished and there was a lot happening in not a lot of space. Does anyone else feel this way?

Finally, does anyone know if the older fit used a different weight of hide? Was it still light or did it have a bit more heft and/or stiffness?

I'll close it here but I'd appreciate any additional thoughts on this, thank you all again. Looking forward to speaking with you soon.

Chris

Oh wow, this is quite a post.

Forst of all, your LW looks absolutely the bee‘s knees. What a spectacular testament of Stu’s abilities as a craftsman. I’d love to see some fit-photos of yours.

I don’t think, comparing LW’s hide to the RMC Shinki in a qualitative way is on the road to tranquility.
Stu prides himself on using heavy (‘manly) leather. While I have found that to be wildly exaggerated concerning the jackets I have handled from him, they are certainly robust. I like the horsehide he uses, but it rather gets the visual appeal form being ‘butch’ more than from its subtleness.

That said, my RMC J-24 is a substantial jacket. Not heavy-heavy, but still al lot of jacket for non-leather guys. In terms of weight, it is in the ballpark of my Schott or Lewis Leathers horsehide jackets.
Also, don’t underestimate the extra weight from the mouton collar. Mine is very thick and does add extra heft to the way the jacket feels when grabbed or worn.

Of course, batches always wary, and Shinki is good at creating a huge mystery about them sourcing ‘the best’ leather, so maybe the current run is a bit on the lighter side.
@Kenan showed me his stunning two-tone J-24, and it was what I would consider a pretty lightweight jacket. He owns both versions and confirms that the black J-24 is considerably heavier.

@ABCD let me try his original Buco, and I’d say, RMC is not far off the mark in terms of overall ‘heft’ of the jacket. Of course, the leather itself can hardly be compared at all.

Anyway, I follow that the pattern will not work for your fit preferences. I still wouldn’t discount the potential of a used J-24L. It will be close to your desired fit, and the Shinki I have seen on RMC jackets ages absolutely beautiful.

 

[Tom71]

On a separate note: this is a great discussion. I enjoy how you approach that issue from personal (fit) preferences and not from trying to find an objective measure for something that is entirely a question of taste.

 

[AeroFan_07]

@AeroFan_07 I'm guilty of not appreciating the LW for what it is, but I will say that after realizing how nice it is when compared to a brand with the cache and enthusiast appreciation that RMC has, the Lost Worlds is staying with me. You're right, it's a keeper and will be something for my son to wear when it's time.

Thanks - I've foolishley let 3 of these go back into the wild. The second one of which I do really wish I had kept.

And the fact they are now "base price" of $2800 makes me wish I had kept them all the more.

The RMC looks like a very nice jacket too, however I agree it might feel a little light overall next to your current J24. You sound like you could easily find an original here, (being a size 36) - they come up often.

 

[Bfd70]

Thanks - I've foolishley let 3 of these go back into the wild. The second one of which I do really wish I had kept.

And the fact they are now "base price" of $2800 makes me wish I had kept them all the more.

The RMC looks like a very nice jacket too, however I agree it might feel a little light overall next to your current J24. You sound like you could easily find an original here, (being a size 36) - they come up often.

Honestly this game has gotten too expensive.