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My G-1 Lineup (Others Invited)
- Thread starter Deacon211
- Start date
Yes, the G+B is definitely goat and about the thickest and nicest grain of all the jackets I've had. The Eastman leather is beautiful, but different than the modern finished goatskin of my other jackets with the spray finishing and all. The grain is just beginning to come out in the Eastman leather and I think its best days are ahead of it. It's also a bit thinner than my 1997 G+B as was the recent Mil-spec G-1 skin in the G+B I tried a few months ago. As I don't really know what is historic, I hesitate to label one or another "more accurate" or "less accurate", it's just how they feel.
Yeah, Tipsy Gypsy took off in popularity and wait times went thought the roof. Wings and Things does a nice job.
I can't speak for the Navy fighter guys, but the Marine fighter and attack guys have gotten away from patching up their jackets anymore...at least last time I was around any. Even the Navy guys I was with in Kingsville leaned more towards patching their CWUs or aftermarket WEPs than their G-1s.
As for patching it up post-retirement, I'd say you may or may not want to (how's that for an obvious statement?). I know a lot of guys (myself included) that feel kind of funny wearing their patched up jackets once they retire. It almost feels like you don't rate wearing it anymore, which is silly but true nonetheless.
These days I feel much less weird wearing an undecorated G-1 than the one I have patches on. I usually save my patched up G+B for the Marine Corps birthday and December 7....the beginning of the Battle of Wake Island (and the namesake of my old squadron).
So I'd say you are probably wise in not "Top Gunning" up your jacket just yet...especially that Sea Bees patch....that's just wrong! (cheesy Top Gun reference)
Deacon
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Aerojoe
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Also, while I was there I noted that they sell Cockpit USA jackets in both the Pensacola Naval Exchange and the museum. These seem like the "mil-spec" ones that the Cockpit offers, but they feel kind of floppy compared to the one I bought many years ago. Maybe they make them softer these days because no one wanted to walk around looking like an FNG while their jacket broke in. Another thing that I thought was interesting is that they really cut the bottom corners off the pockets, much more so than on any jacket I've ever seen. It does make it look a bit like a caricature of a G-1 or maybe "a G-1 writ large" might be a better way of putting it. Still and all, it seems to fit well enough, though it has some odd angles that I think just require some wearing out. The leather was a bit variable across jackets but looks nicely grained in the pics. I suspect that some of these jackets have been sitting around on the hangers for a long time since the last place you are likely to sell a G-1 jacket is on the base where they hand the real ones out for free.
I also wonder a bit if the Cockpit didn't supply a sort of "G-1 Lite" to the museum for mass production. These were running between $450 and $470 which is what they are in the catalogues. As the museum isn't above a little price gouging, I was surprised that they weren't charging more.
So, I guess I'm saying that this may not be the state of the art of the Cockpit G-1.
At the risk of running on as I do even longer, I also went to see the guys who actually issue the real G-1s to the pilots. G-1s are a tightly held item and so every G-1 in the Navy/Marines comes from one building...they are not distributed to the fleet through the normal supply chain. I got to see a brand new G-1; this one made by Excel Leather (I don't believe it was "Excelled" but I could be wrong). According to the GS guys I spoke with, there are only one or two vendors making flight jackets for the military these days, Excel was one and the one I have indicated Pharr Brand was another. The quality was about like my other issue jacket on the previous page, kind of smooth and processed with little grain. I think the day of the old school flight jacket has now truly passed, though the current issue is certainly functional enough.
This is the first Cockpit I purchased. It had a little flaw in a seam and it was 300$, so I decided to give it a try. It is the same jacket that is being issued to the military but with a real fur collar. It's labeled as 7823(aer) but I think it is closer to the first batch of 7823D ever produced.
It is a totally functional jacket. Goatskin, nylon liner and the toughest zipper I've ever seen in a jacket. Forget about any luxury details or grains. This is the kind of thing you'd give a pilot, something to be abused.
I don't dig the big collar at all, it's way to big for my taste. I prefer the smaller collar in the Cockpit vintage G-1.
The sizing must be military. I am a US46 and this one is a Size 42. It fits me perfect.
Interesting AeroJoe. As I wrote above, I asked the guy who hands out the jackets in Pensacola who actually makes the issue jackets and I don't believe (though I have an unlimited capacity to be wrong) that Cockpit USA is one of the vendors.
It could very well be exactly like the issue jackets, perhaps even better but it seems that every maker of the modern G-1 suggests that theirs is actually issued which is kind of ironic because I don't think that the two current contract owners (Pharr and Excelled) even sell their jackets to civilians...kind of a shame for people who would have liked the get the real thing.
So, it seems as though you like the leather. Could you post some pics for comparison? It seems that there is some variability in the cockpit jackets and I'd be interested in seeing a good cross section.
I saw the vintage jackets in the catalogue. It looks like that goat is a bit different from the mil-spec version. I'd love to see one up close! Any pics to add?
Deacon
Edward
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One difference I have gathered is that the Cockpit jackets have real mouton on the collar - the issue jacket is faux mouton. I suppose it depends on ho much of a stickler for accuracy one is as to whether one would see this as an upgrade or an innacuracy!
Atticus Finch
Call Me a Cab
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I don't think Avirex or Cockpit has ever been a supplier of G-1s. They did make A-2s for the USAF. Cockpit still may, I'm not sure.
Truthfully, I haven't paid much attention to the most recent editions of either of the G-1 or A-2. They are both supposedly made of goatskin, but that goatskin must be domestically produced. Evidently, we domestics don't produce much high quality goatskin because the newer military leather flight jackets I've seen are a terrible, plastic-like mess. This as compared to the issued jackets made only a few years ago in the eighties and nineties. Many of those jackets were made from some of the best leather I've seen in jackets from any era.
AF
Truthfully, I haven't paid much attention to the most recent editions of either of the G-1 or A-2. They are both supposedly made of goatskin, but that goatskin must be domestically produced. Evidently, we domestics don't produce much high quality goatskin because the newer military leather flight jackets I've seen are a terrible, plastic-like mess. This as compared to the issued jackets made only a few years ago in the eighties and nineties. Many of those jackets were made from some of the best leather I've seen in jackets from any era.
AF
Isn't that strange that US goats are somehow inferior to goats from somewhere else. I find these things fascinating like the claim I sometimes see that wartime goat was superior to modern goat. I can understand the finishing methods...but are the goats themselves inferior? Why can't we get good goatskin anymore? Price?
As I've posted elsewhere, while I didn't think my 1990 issue jacket was any great shakes back then, I wish I had kept it. It was really quite nice compared to its replacement that I got in 2004. I believe that both were goat, though I could certainly be wrong. The earlier one was just a nicer jacket with better skins.
Deacon
Atticus Finch
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No, I think a goat is a goat is a goat. It is the way the hide is tanned. There are several Federal statutes that requires our government to purchase only domestically produced products when possible. As I understand it, the producers of issued flight jackets were able to skirt this law for a while because it was impossible to get enough domestically tanned goat skins to fill the demand. But that came to an end sometime after 1998, and now hides are sourced locally. Sadly, domestically tanned hides are inferior to those produced elsewhere, for whatever reason.
AF
Huh, we can put a man on the moon, but we can't tan a goat. A shame.
Well.
Actually it would be more correct to say we could put a man on the moon at one time.....
Thanks for the info AF.
Deacon
Aerojoe
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I have remotely no idea if Cockpit sells to the military or not
However, the jacket is exactly the same than the current issue but with a real fur collar. I think current issue is something close to the last batches of the 7823D spec. Goatskin and synthetic collar.So, it seems as though you like the leather. Could you post some pics for comparison? It seems that there is some variability in the cockpit jackets and I'd be interested in seeing a good cross section.
I don't have it with me right now because I'm not wearing it lately but the hide is like the previous pictures. With no flash it is quite dark, almost black, very plain, maybe cheap. Nothing to do with a real vintage 7823AER.
I have remotely no idea if Cockpit sells to the military or not
I don't have it with me right now because I'm not wearing it lately but the hide is like the previous pictures. With no flash it is quite dark, almost black, very plain, maybe cheap. Nothing to do with a real vintage 7823AER.
No worries. I had a Cockpit G-1 many years ago and it was different than the ones I saw in the Pensacola exchange more recently. I'm just curious what the "standard" Cockpit G-1 is looking like these days.
I used to live a few hours from their NYC showroom but now driving there would be a bit painful.
Deacon
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Aerojoe
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I think the current Cockpit Mill. Spec G-1 is different from the one they were selling during the early Cockpit or Avirex era. They used to have a horrible A-2 with velcros for patches back then
I don't know how far you are from NYC but if you happend to be there for any reason, pay them a visit. I'm sure it will be worthwhile.
Doctor Damage
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Picked up this used Buaer G1 (made by Flight Suits) recently, but it's sadly too tight around the shoulders, so out it will have to go. Beautiful jacket and in nearly new condition, really heavy and flawless. Another 1" around the shoulders and... oh well.
Two of mine ( my only two G-1 style jackets ) ... both of which were slated on here as being so big " you could fit a space suit under them" ... it would appear that I don't like the skin tight, too short fit that current FL Fashion trends require ... anyway ....
The first my Bill Kelso M422a
The first my Bill Kelso M422a
next my Aero AN6552
which is IDENTICAL to the nearest 1/4" in size to the Bill Kelso although the Bill Kelso is a 44" ( 1" off the arms) and the Aero is a 46" (with 1" off the arms)
For the record I LOVE how they fit and wear them often ..... despite what the vocal few on here say
which is IDENTICAL to the nearest 1/4" in size to the Bill Kelso although the Bill Kelso is a 44" ( 1" off the arms) and the Aero is a 46" (with 1" off the arms)
For the record I LOVE how they fit and wear them often ..... despite what the vocal few on here say
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Those are awesome! Thanks for sharing the pics.
My wife got me a renovated 1941 jacket that wears a bit big on me as well, but I'm really beginning to warm up to a looser fit. If you like how it fits, then I suppose that is all that should matter.
Deacon
Love the falcon by the way!
My wife got me a renovated 1941 jacket that wears a bit big on me as well, but I'm really beginning to warm up to a looser fit. If you like how it fits, then I suppose that is all that should matter.
Deacon
Love the falcon by the way!
Beautiful jacket Devilish- and perfect fit.
Here are my current 2.
First up is this this M442a I picked up recently for not alot of money.
From what little I know about M422a's. Anj-3's, G1,s etc i'm assuming from the pocket configuration that this is a Gordon & Ferguson number which puts it at 1942/43
The waistband/cuffs are clearly replaced, presumably using A2 spec wool but I quite like how it looks & I'm even tempted to do this to the original spec '61 Ralph Edwards G1 that I also got not too long ago (see below) but the knits aren't TOO much in need of replacing. Would that be sacrilegious to do in your opinions?
The zip is a replacement, as is the mouton & I think the lining- This would have been red right? It's possibly a size too small although I can just about squeeze into it for the time-being.
Next up Ralph Edwards G1 dated 1961... cost me a grand total of £49 incl post. Everything is as it should be. I assumed at first that the zipper was wrong and should have been the paper-clip type (which I actually prefer) but on doing some research it seems this is correct and original. One of the cuffs is a bit raggedy but the mouton is pretty much pristine as is the lining. The Leather is very supple with only a couple of marks here & there. Nothing major. Just my size too.
Here are my current 2.
First up is this this M442a I picked up recently for not alot of money.
From what little I know about M422a's. Anj-3's, G1,s etc i'm assuming from the pocket configuration that this is a Gordon & Ferguson number which puts it at 1942/43
The waistband/cuffs are clearly replaced, presumably using A2 spec wool but I quite like how it looks & I'm even tempted to do this to the original spec '61 Ralph Edwards G1 that I also got not too long ago (see below) but the knits aren't TOO much in need of replacing. Would that be sacrilegious to do in your opinions?
The zip is a replacement, as is the mouton & I think the lining- This would have been red right? It's possibly a size too small although I can just about squeeze into it for the time-being.
Next up Ralph Edwards G1 dated 1961... cost me a grand total of £49 incl post. Everything is as it should be. I assumed at first that the zipper was wrong and should have been the paper-clip type (which I actually prefer) but on doing some research it seems this is correct and original. One of the cuffs is a bit raggedy but the mouton is pretty much pristine as is the lining. The Leather is very supple with only a couple of marks here & there. Nothing major. Just my size too.
