Necktie Knots

[flat-top]

The Four-In Hand
http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=39714&highlight=knot

 

[dhermann1]

I second that emotion

The four in hand.

 

[High Pockets]

The "Shelby" every time.

Perfect symetry and you can make small and tight, or loose and large.

The only draw-back to the Shelby is the need to "untie" it every time.

Shelby link: http://artofmanliness.com/2009/06/05/how-to-tie-a-tie/

 

[babs]

Ok.. learned something today. Had no idea what the knot was called but this is how I've done ties since high-school. Just by trail and error and a couple reasons.. I always went for a fairly skinny knot to try to accentuate the body of the tie rather than a skinny tie (as most were in the 80's), and being long-waisted and 17 1/2" now 18 1/5" neck, I ran out of tie with knots that required more length to tie.

Been tying the FIH so long, it's 2nd nature and I doubt I could even tie a different knot.. If I did, it'd just be strange.

 

[HodgePodge]

Yep, an FIH is pretty much necessary if you're going to wear a collar bar. I've tried it with half and full windsors, and it just ends up looking like you're smuggling a baklava around your neck.

*scratches head* Smuggling Baklava? With or without chopped pistachios?

 

[dhermann1]

Sudden realization: Four in Hand

I was just looking at this picture on Shorpy.com, and was struck by the term "Four in hand". Now we know it as a neck tie knot, but how does the term translate into a knot? In this, we see a four in hand coach, meaning four horses' traces held in one hand. Logical! It must be that the knot came somehow from the knots worn by coach drivers. Can any resident historian confirm this?
http://www.shorpy.com/node/6813?size=_original

 

[HodgePodge]

It must be that the knot came somehow from the knots worn by coach drivers. Can any resident historian confirm this?
http://www.shorpy.com/node/6813?size=_original

I'm no historian, but...

Wikipedia states:
"... the most likely etymology is that members of the Four-in-Hand Club in London began to wear the neckwear, making it fashionable."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_in_hand

 

[benstephens]

It is the only knot I wear when wearing vintage clothing. I believe it is the most understated and elegant of all knots, especially with a tie pin. When wearing narrow collars, it does not shout 'look at me', it is just there, neat, and performing it's job.

I have tried many other knots, but always revert back to it.

Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[dhermann1]

The Four-in-Hand Club

This link has a little more on the subject. Seems the Four-in-Hand Club were enthusiasts of driving four horse, or four in hand, carriages. They apparently enforced their dress code strcitly, which must have included something similar to what we call the four-in-hand knot.
Faskinatin'
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~awoodley/regency/club.html

 

[Ethan Bentley]

The four in hand.

I agree. I'm going to try the Shelby though.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Back in the '40s, the standard knot used for those wide ties was a half Windsor. It was part of "The Bold Look."



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[repeatclicks]

But that leaves out over half of a decade. Bold look was late 40s.

I saw a hair, and had to split it

 

[Marc Chevalier]

But that leaves out over half of a decade. Bold look was late 40s.

I saw a hair, and had to split it

Fair enough. From '44 to '50 or so.


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[repeatclicks]

Good sport! I thought it was Esquire who formally introduced it in Spring of 1948? Ah well these things are always questionable anyway.

 

[armod]

The "Shelby" every time.

Perfect symetry and you can make small and tight, or loose and large.

The only draw-back to the Shelby is the need to "untie" it every time.

Shelby link: http://artofmanliness.com/2009/06/05/how-to-tie-a-tie/

you should always untie your ties anyway.
they last longer that way.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Good sport! I thought it was Esquire who formally introduced it in Spring of 1948? Ah well these things are always questionable anyway.

Yes indeed, it was formally 'named' in 1948. However, the style began to make its appearance on the custom circuit in '44 -- though few people could afford its extra fabric, which came from the cloth hoards of certain tailors.


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[Guttersnipe]

I think it depends of the tie and what look you're going for...http://i419.photobucke

With two-toned 40's ties, the Four In-Hand sometimes gives me to much length. I often use it with ties that have a consistent pattern throughout, though.

I think this picture illustrates that point pretty well:

To get that dimpled, two-toned look, I really like the Half-Windsor:

Sometimes, for a little different look, I use the Full-Windsor to use up enough slack so that only the knot is the contrasting color:

 

[jamespowers]

Yeah, pretty much as the subject line says, I need to know which is the best knot to use with a 1940s tie to give it that nice short look. Im using a double windsor at the moment.

Thanks!

Keep using the full windsor. It is one of the most symetrical of knots and makes the tie look neat while filling the collar space adequately. It will also suck up plenty to material.

 

[avedwards]

I will go along with what people said about the Shelby knot. It can be tied to any lenth and knot thickness. THe only drawback for me is that the short end always ends up too long and has to be tucked into my shirt, though this could just be overly long modern ties rather than the knot I'm using.

 

[jamespowers]

I will go along with what people said about the Shelby knot. It can be tied to any lenth and knot thickness. THe only drawback for me is that the short end always ends up too long and has to be tucked into my shirt, though this could just be overly long modern ties rather than the knot I'm using.

Is it just me or is the Shelby just a Windsor tied with the face of the tie facing down instead of up? [huh]
That whole 70s thing also gave me flashbacks to the time when ties were REALLY ugly. :eusa_doh: