Need advice to purchase a Montecristi Panama

[rayk]

I'm relatively new to hats, only beginning my research of the Montecristi in early December, 2003. I had read all that was readily available about BB and Robert by early January, 2004, and I knew that I was unwilling to pay $10000 for a hat that could very well necessitate the placement of a second mortgage on my house... a house in which I would have soon become a lone occupant after being deserted by my girlfriend, who would have thought me certifiably mad. Yet, I would have never been satisfied with a hat from BB that I knew was one of his lesser items.

My solution was to buy a high quality, high wpi unblocked Montecristi fino from Robert, then, send it off to BB, who advertised on his website that he would block the hat of another company for $125, but not guarantee the work. I thought this a reasonable accommodation. After discussing with Robert the purchase of a fino fino, I emailed BB with a request for specific information RE his blocking service. After approximately two months, I received a very cordial email with a rejection of my request for his service, and the explanation that due to the often inferior hats that he had begun to receive from customers and was unable to block to his standard, he was no longer accepting hats of other companies. Perhaps it had to do with my hat being purchased from Robert, who is arguably a thorn in his ass.

I would, therefore, be sure to confirm with Brent that he is again willing to block hats sold by other companies, to wit, PHM.

 

[gcollins]

I think BB is like most other small businessmen and craftsman. Once you develop a relationship a bit, buy a hat, work on getting it right...then you can do some things.

He's pretty busy these days doing all of his own blocking, and he has a Japanese woman who does the sewing on the leather and headband.

Trent at Greeley is no longer doing ANY panama blocking for his own hats or for BB's overflow; he's all felt now and BB is all straw, just like Trent's site says. Trent acutally sent some nice cocoa cuenca bodies to BB to finish off his stock.

Regards,
G

 

[Art Fawcett]

GCollins & Paladin
Welcome both to the Lounge

Paladin, I have intentionally stay off of this post to let others comment on your requests and to get advise that is as unbiased as possible for fear of looking like I was "Lurking" for business but now that "G" has put that out there I'll jump in. What Robert hasn't told you is that I am the hatter blocking his Montecristi's here in the US, of which you will find many examples of my work here on the lounge. Not because I am "lurking" for business, but because I truly love Panama's ( all hats as a matter of fact) and have had it as part of my vintage clothing business for many years. I know many of the gentlemen that are being mentioned here and all are good men. You can buy a hat from any of the mentioned hatters at whatever the market will bear and STILL not get a better quality than what PanamaBob offers.

"G", if you hadn't noticed yet, I am incredibly insulted by your comment. I have had and will have a solid business with or without "lurking" on this board. OK, I get it, your a big BB fan. But why must you insult others because of your sole opinion? How about expressing it without insults to others. Fair enough?

 

[Paladin]

Art,
Thanks for the welcome. So you can block the Montecristi that Bob can provide? Interesting. I'd appreciate your emailing me off-line when it's convenient so we can chat about it.

 

[gcollins]

Hi Art:

No worries. I appologize if comments offended you. Nothing intended. You could also argue why it's okay that you drum up business on an internet forum. That's cool too, nothing is personal to me here. Argue your point, you are clearly the gentleman. Geez, we're talking hats for buddha's sake.

We're here to share and respect each other's differences of opinions and taste. What I had meant to say earlier was that moderators may not allow vendors to do business on the forum--but I've always thought that the experts like you and Bob provide much greater depth than a lay-man's only forum. I was wrong to phrase in the way that I did. Mea culpa.

As I mentioned earlier, I like to stick to the positive and enjoy basic the fortunes of health and hobbies we all have in life, and celebrate all those who contribute in that. I don't have much bad to say about anyone, because life is too short. Everyone has opinions and whether I personally like it or not, they are valuable.

No worries if you get business from this site. I truly think that's a great and FREE marketing opportunity, and you enrich us along the way! Why not?

By the way, looks like you're doing some awesome hats! It's a good deal on the panamas that you and Bob are doing. If more know about it, more would be here! I think it's just great! Keep it up. Show some more of your beauties!

Regards,
G

 

[Art Fawcett]

G,
Mea culpa accepted!!

I don't know how many posts you have been able to read in the short time you have been here but your last post is echoing my beliefs and attitudes so it's cool to see my words coming back at me.) Yes, life is too short and we ARE only talking about hats.
I suppose I may have a somewhat hair trigger in the attitude department right now as I have been on a 12-16 hr day schedule without a break for the last 5 weeks and am pretty weary. In "real" life I am a masonry contractor specializing in stone work and work 100% from referrals. I have built a career from letting my work speak for me, not self promotion through words. My hat work is more a passion than a business but I can see where it might just be what I retire to soon ( I hope). I intend to carry the same principals to it that I have to every business I own.
Show me...don't tell me.

At this point I think the best thing I can do is offer again
"Welcome to the Lounge", you will find friends here.

Art

 

[Paladin]

Art--I'm a big admirer of stone masonry, especially since my wife and I took a driving tour of Ireland a number of years ago. The stone walls that wind through the beautiful countryside are a sight to behold. And the stone castles, of course.....we even got to kiss the real Blarney Stone at Castle Blarney (anyone who has done so understands the contortions you need to go through--and word has it the locals get a laugh out of the tourists because of what they do periodically to the stone--but that's another story).

Have you ever read the book "Stone Work: Reflections on Serious Play and Other Aspects of Country Life" by Jerome Johnson? I have a copy and will be getting around to reading it, but having the life-long experience with stonework that you do, I bet you'd enjoy it. Here's the link on Amazon to read more about it:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_2/002-1500222-6828053?v=glance&s=books

I can't think of any material that looks as pretty as stone in a wall or home.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

ARt wrote

I have built a career from letting my work speak for me, not self promotion through words. My hat work is more a passion than a business but I can see where it might just be what I retire to soon ( I hope). I intend to carry the same principals to it that I have to every business I own.

Well i can speak first hand on this. Art is a man of principals and he never comes on this forum and self promotes himself. He is a Gentlemen to all and his only desire is to learn and help not be self serving. The ones that have used his services will do that as a matter of course. I for one am very proud to know him.
:cool2:

 

[gcollins]

Okay then, fellas, drink up! I'm buying the next round.

G

 

[Andykev]

Maybe not

Originally posted by gcollins
[B...like a car, no one will pay you the same amount second hand, for a hat that you paid. It's a hat, man! Most people don't give a squat. It's all up to what you value and how you value a maker's hat.
[/B]

I disagree. Some of the vintage Super Fino Montecristi's have increased in value, just like rare cars (your analogy) or real estate. Like an agent told me once, they quit making land when the earth was formed.

And Montecristi's , the fine ones, are getting scarce. Read some books and you will discover why. Try "Panama, a Legendary Hat"

Like the young gerneration in the U.S.A,,the new generation in Equador can't be bothered with the tedious work.Oh

 

[Panamabob]

I don't buy that....

Like the young gerneration in the U.S.A,,the new generation in Equador can't be bothered with the tedious work.Oh

Andykev, if these hatters would send 10% of what they make off of the hats to the weavers then they'd (the weavers) be making a decent enough wage to continue weaving the hats. In a country where the average wage is about $200.00 a month, I'd like to point out that they (the weavers) ARE earning less than that by weaving and aren't earning much more than that in the workforce. If you ever get to Ecuador you will see what I mean.

Hatters....pay the fine people what they are worth and/or stop marking the hats up 100s of percentages so you can sell more hats...illogical in business, logical for keeping the finer woven hats going.

Since I'm no business man I suppose that won't make sense to you all.

I've been there. Honestly ask the other guys who've been there...I know many of you talk on the phone. I'll bet you that you get the ol....."We pay the prices asked." and the ol' "I have to pay my bills, too." lines.

 

[jamespowers]

Re: I don't buy that....

Originally posted by Panamabob
Andykev, if these hatters would send 10% of what they make off of the hats to the weavers then they'd (the weavers) be making a decent enough wage to continue weaving the hats. In a country where the average wage is about $200.00 a month, I'd like to point out that they (the weavers) ARE earning less than that by weaving and aren't earning much more than that in the workforce. If you ever get to Ecuador you will see what I mean.

Hatters....pay the fine people what they are worth and/or stop marking the hats up 100s of percentages so you can sell more hats...illogical in business, logical for keeping the finer woven hats going.

Since I'm no business man I suppose that won't make sense to you all.

I've been there. Honestly ask the other guys who've been there...I know many of you talk on the phone. I'll bet you that you get the ol....."We pay the prices asked." and the ol' "I have to pay my bills, too." lines.

Robert,

I certainly know what you mean. Weaving is an art not just a commodity that can be done anywhere by trained monkeys. Respecting these artists and making their craft worth doing in the form of compensation will save the art. As you would not expect Picasso to work for pennies while you sold his art for hundreds of thousands of dollars; you cannot expect these weavers to weave without just compensation because there are other more lucrative forms of work that will support a family. There is nothing that holds them to weaving other than maybe tradition. Keep it going the way it is and there will be no new weavers to replace the old masters and then you really will be paying thousands for a Panama---even the lower weave count ones!

Regards to all,

J

 

[Panamabob]

Did Paladin ever get that Montecristi? I'd like to see photos.