New To Fedora's

[danofarlington]

What makes the FED IV an "Indy" hat over the FED III's "Indy" hat, again?

High crown, to me. Although I don't know anything abou the Fed III, not being a customer of either.

 

[warbird]

The Fed III was simply the pre-cursor to the IV. Supposedly the IV was an improvement in small details and was supposed to be like the latest Indy movie hat. They consulted with Steve before production. The crown is a bit lower and if I recall the ribbon is darker. I know the ribbon on the IV's I've handled is much darker than the one on my II. But I also know my Fed ribbon has faded over time and exposure, so I don't remember how dark it was originally.

 

[Tone]

I'd love to see that "FED II" since it was never actually a hat in production. But, about the current Federation: that sounds like they just went and tried to fix a hat that was designed in the wrong specs in the first place (on the FED III) for an Indy hat; though I do recall the FED III received just as much value for being an accurate Indy hat during its time.

 

[Diamondback1]

The Fed III was simply the pre-cursor to the IV. Supposedly the IV was an improvement in small details and was supposed to be like the latest Indy movie hat. They consulted with Steve before production. The crown is a bit lower and if I recall the ribbon is darker. I know the ribbon on the IV's I've handled is much darker than the one on my II. But I also know my Fed ribbon has faded over time and exposure, so I don't remember how dark it was originally.

....thanks warbird; I was wondering about that, too.

- regards

 

[Tone]

It's not really an accurate answer that addresses anything except for raising further and interesting speculation that the Federation had undergone, yet again, changes to fix it from the first attempt at an Indy hat. But, since the changes to the FED IV, as an accurate "indy hat", were recently recommended to be exactly as those of, say, the Miller open crowned hat, which has existed for years prior in these recommended "changed" specs to the FED IV - Is the Miller suddenly in accurate specs? How do these others fare "now" that the FED has at least been changed to match the long-standing open-crowned specs such as the 257? At one point the FEDERATION wasn't sharing these same numbers. So...is the FED IV (now in the same specs as so many other open-crowned fedoras have already been) suddenly a more accurate "30's hat" when so many other brands have been in these specs since forever; in addition to those others also having correct 30's brims unlike the FED?


- regards!

 

[jlee562]

The Fed III had a higher crown and I believe a longer brim. The Fed IV is a vintage Akubra block. Steve at AB sent one of his hats to Hats Direct, they selected the block for the Fed IV based on Steve's hat, it happens to be a pretty close match.

 

[Tone]

So, the FED III was not on a vintage block?
A vintage block? Akubra's Bushman and Campdraft have been in production and made for decades on... Wait a minute. You mean to say that Akubra's vintage blocks were not vintage blocks until Hatsdirect decided to finally change the FED III to the FED IV? How did Akubra manage to make hats for so long without the help of finding a vintage block?

 

[danofarlington]

So, the FED III was not on a vintage block?
A vintage block? Akubra's Bushman and Campdraft have been in production and made for decades on... Wait a minute. You mean to say that Akubra's vintage blocks were not vintage blocks until Hatsdirect decided to finally change the FED III to the FED IV? How did Akubra manage to make hats for so long without the help of finding a vintage block?

The Federation is a new invention in the wake of the Indiana Jones movies, no? I thought it just evoked a retro style made popular by the movie, as opposed to being a continuation of past styles.

 

[Tone]

What style is something like the Miller 257 (and other similar open-crowned hats) supposed to evoke?

 

[RockyNomad]

Hopefully you're kidding.

I am absolutely kidding. Just as I would hope someone who says they like mobsters is not being serious.

 

[scottyrocks]

I think hairs are being split here a bit too finely. The Feds are basically 30s style hats. Their genesis was the IJ movies. What makes them 'IJ' hats is the general shape, color, and dimensional brim. Straight-sided 30s style fedoras with 5 1/2" crown heights and 2 1/2"ish brims are what they are.

Despite many attempts to create Indy hats, there have been various levels of success. Many are close, and even the dedicated Indy hat makers continually tweak their designs. So aside from color, general straight sided shape, and (especially) the dimensional brim, an Indy hat is one of the 'typical' styles of the era in which it is based. I say 'typical' because there were plenty of other styles of hats, as well as more tapered fedoras during that time, as well.

 

[Sam Craig]

Scotty is right about the hairs gettin' split here.

Let's face it ... you've got an image on the big screen ... then you have a material object you take off the wrack and put on your head to go outside.
When you look in the mirror with your perfectly shaped, incredibly expensive, accurately stained Indiana Jones fedora on, are you going to match the celluloid image?
Not unless you are Harrison Ford, and even then not without a lot of help.

There have been some great hats developed out of the IJ movement. We should enjoy them as such ... as great hats... not as physical representations of an image on a movie screen.

You can find other examples, of course, as firms have tried to reproduce the Outlaw Josey Wales hat, or the Duke's famous cavalry hat ... good luck with that one, by the way, unless you start with a hat that will cost as much as a great IJ hat. When Rio Grande was made, as an example, you can tell that Wayne's hat was not a cheap one. Look at how thin the felt is. That was a great hat before is was shaped.

It's fun to try to recreate these looks, but it's just that ... fun.

Fortunately for hat lovers, that fun has, indeed, led to some great creations.

Sam

 

[Tone]

Well, since 1/8th of an inch can affect a hat's appearance, and the vast differences between the FED III and the FED IV are considered to be merely splitting hairs...
Speaking of all that fun that had led to some great hat creations; how long have the Akubra Bushman, Campdraft, and Squatter been around? Were they inspired by the film? What were hatters using as Bogie style fedoras prior to this?

 

[jlee562]

So, the FED III was not on a vintage block?
A vintage block? Akubra's Bushman and Campdraft have been in production and made for decades on... Wait a minute. You mean to say that Akubra's vintage blocks were not vintage blocks until Hatsdirect decided to finally change the FED III to the FED IV? How did Akubra manage to make hats for so long without the help of finding a vintage block?

Ugh. Look, I can only tell you what Steve posted on Club Obi Wan. Now you are splitting hairs. The main point is that the Fed III and IV do not share the same block. The block for the IV was not created or invented recently to mimic the IJ hat, rather it was one Akubra already had but was not in current production.

Now, how the hell you turn that into "Akubras blocks are not vintage until...." is beyond me.

 

[Tone]

What was wrong with the Federation III in order that it was changed?

 

[jlee562]

Wrong in what sense? There's nothing "wrong" with the Fed III if you were looking for an open crown, 30's style fedora.

IIRC, the Fed III had a higher crown, beyond that, the new block was chosen for the IV because it more closely resembled the hat Steve sent hats direct.

 

[Tone]

Wrong in what sense? There's nothing "wrong" with the Fed III if you were looking for an open crown, 30's style fedora.

Exactly. Well, the Campdraft is still out there, at least.

 

[jlee562]

Exactly. Well, the Campdraft is still out there, at least.

Uhh, ok, so what's your point exactly?

 

[Tone]

jlee562

Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
Exactly. Well, the Campdraft is still out there, at least.
Uhh, ok, so what's your point exactly?

That the Campdraft is currently pretty much the closest hat to the old Fed III, but in a bound brim.

 

[gtdean48]

That the Campdraft is currently pretty much the closest hat to the old Fed III, but in a bound brim.

The Campdraft is an Open Road that wasn't on the scene in this configuration until the late 1940s. Don't see how it can represent a 30s style fedora....