Persistence-sustained effort necessary to induce faith

[Lincsong]

The basis of persistence is the power of will. Will-power and desire, when properly combined, make an irresistible pair. The majority of poeple are ready to throw their aims and purposes overboard, and give up at the first sign of opposition or misfortune. A few carry on despite all opposition, until they attain their goal. How persistent are you in life and what do you do to attain that for which you are peristent?

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Never surrender, you ain't beat until you quit.

 

[jazzbass]

There's another side to that. Some people are so blindly persistent they don't know they're actually going in reverse--or circles.

And "faith' is a very scary thing to me. It means you've lost the capacity to reason.




jazzbass

 

[jazzbass]

Never surrender, you ain't beat until you quit.

That reminds me of the "Black Knight" in Monty Python's "Holy Grail"....





jazzbass

 

[Elaina]

I'm like Boxer the horse from Animal Farm. I will work harder. But I'm not stupid, and character flaw or not, if I have to step on you to get the goal, watch your toes.

Specifically, now, depends on what you're talking about. If it's the fabric for the perfect dress, and I touch it and someone comes behind me to yank it out of my hands: I'm going to yank it back, and get razor tongued in the process. Last year, I got kicked out of toys-R-Us because someone wanted a toy I had in my cart and pulled a stunt. I threatened her with a baseball bat. If it's for my career: there is no quarter drawn or given. I'm better then you are, and as long as you recognize that and leave me alone, we'll be okay. You do anything to me (and here I don't care if you copy a design, touch my buttons, or any of the other junk that goes on) I'm going to destroy you, or go down in flames trying. And probably in more then one way. But that is also the nature of the beast. If it's something for church or charity, then the rules change, and accordingly, so do I.

College has been a hellhole to get to. My parents made too much money to get grants and loans (not to mention I couldn't get a copy of their records) so I put it off. Then I made too much money to qualify, but not enough to pay for it. Then I had a baby. Then I made poor choices. Then I got in, got so ill, I was told I had 6 months to live. Had to take time off. Now I'm about ready to start back, and I've got to go take a pregnancy test at the doctor's, which if that confims the home test, will make it due at finals time, which would put me off another semester, and the baby would be too young to start summer semester I, and if I don't do that, I can't enroll in Summer Semester II. So, I'm going to get through college only on the force of my will, because I'm not going to walk away.

Now this is not to say that I'm not nice when I have to be. Generally, I try the nice way first. But if that doesn't get me anywhere, then too bad. I'm one of those folks that life seems to hate and throws up on me every chance it gets. So I have the choice to work harder, or go off and kill myself. I'd rather not, so I do the former.

 

[carebear]

The basis of persistence is the power of will. Will-power and desire, when properly combined, make an irresistible pair. The majority of poeple are ready to throw their aims and purposes overboard, and give up at the first sign of opposition or misfortune. A few carry on despite all opposition, until they attain their goal. How persistent are you in life and what do you do to attain that for which you are peristent?

The old "Will to Power", eh? Just kidding.

Nothing in the definition of "faith" explicitly or implicitly denies reason or demonstrates a "lack of capacity" to do so. "Faith" can transcend reason; especially in those areas reason is ill-equipped to deal with or in situations where blind adherence to reason is counterproductive to survival or mission accomplishment.

 

[jazzbass]

The old "Will to Power", eh? Just kidding.

Nothing in the definition of "faith" explicitly or implicitly denies reason or demonstrates a "lack of capacity" to do so. "Faith" can transcend reason; especially in those areas reason is ill-equipped to deal with or in situations where blind adherence to reason is counterproductive to survival or mission accomplishment.

"Blind adherence to reason"? Now that's a new one. We need MORE critical thinking not blind faith (is there another kind?).

These seems appropriate...




"...We may define 'faith' as a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. When there is evidence, no one speaks of 'faith'. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence."

— Bertrand Russell



"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

— Benjamin Franklin



"Of the struggle between reason and religion, I know this: Religion is more dangerous. When reason is challenged, it will raise an objection. It will raise questions. When religion is challenged, it was raise an army. It will raze cities."

— Richard Bamford



"Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable . . . A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass: he is actually ill."

— H. L. Mencken





jazzbass

 

[deanglen]

Faith as trust. Harder to ignore.

dean

 

[Lincsong]

Faith is a state of mind

Faith my be induced, or created, by affirmation or repeated instructions to the subconscious mind, through autosuggestion.

Faith is a state of mind which you may develop at will and voluntarily.

Reason can be used to justify a form of fear.
The Fear of poverty
The Fear of criticism
The Fear of ill health

If you believe something bad will happen to you, you may attempt to use "reason" for justifying that fear. "oh everything bad happens to me. I have bad luck" etc. etc.

Fear is nothing more than a state of mind. Just as faith is a state of mind. Every human being has the ability to completely control his own mind, and with this control, obviously, every person may open his mind to the tramp impulses which are being released by other brains, or close the doors tightly and admit only thought impluses of his own choice.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Faith is a double edged sword.

Fear is the negative side of the equation. If one dwells on any fear long enough, it will come to pass.

 

[Lincsong]

Another wise saying; do what you fear and the fear will go away. Once fear is gone then let your faith take over.

 

[jazzbass]

....Reason can be used to justify a form of fear.
The Fear of poverty
The Fear of criticism
The Fear of ill health

If you believe something bad will happen to you, you may attempt to use "reason" for justifying that fear. "oh everything bad happens to me. I have bad luck" etc. etc.

That's NOT reasoning--that's an emotional response. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, actually a neurosis.

Fear is nothing more than a state of mind. Just as faith is a state of mind. Every human being has the ability to completely control his own mind, and with this control, obviously, every person may open his mind to the tramp impulses which are being released by other brains, or close the doors tightly and admit only thought impluses of his own choice.

I see faith more as self delusion created by various fears.





jazzbass

 

[Lincsong]

Faith is a positive, fear is a negative.
Reason is used as a crutch for those who have no faith. Reason is used to justify the negatives and not the positives.

 

[carebear]

I trust (have faith) that my loved ones will not betray me.

I can have that trust in part due to reason (they've never betrayed me before, they appear to have good moral fiber in their observable actions, etc.).

However, in the end, it is beyond my ability to truly know through reason that my faith (trust) in their fidelity is justified. My reason reminds me people occasionally fail in their morals, that people who seemed equally trustworthy at the time have betrayed others in similar situations, that in fact it could very reasonably be an actual scam on me for the sole reason of another's sick pleasure.

But, in spite of the fact that reason can take me only so far, I choose to have faith in that other person. Reason would leave me uncertain, forever looking for a sign to mistrust, never truly trusting in fact. My faith is not blind, it is supported by reason, but reason alone cannot rationally lead to absolute trust in another fallible person.

"Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." It is not "blind", it suppliments reason on things that reason is in the end incapable of knowing.

 

[Twitch]

I'm at an age where I have no more long term goals. I'm content with the next day dawning and being here to see it...[huh]

 

[Etienne]

Lincsong, I am a bit confused by the useage of the term "faith". In the context given, it more closely seems like a sort of self-determination to achieve a goal or accomplish something. (But many of the replies given seem to be about religious faith, as in believing in God.)

 

[Section10]

Lincsong, I am a bit confused by the useage of the term "faith". In the context given, it more closely seems like a sort of self-determination to achieve a goal or accomplish something. (But many of the replies given seem to be about religious faith, as in believing in God.)

So far, the only one I can see who has made a direct linking in this thread of faith with religion is Jazzbass in post #7. I like Carebear's perception of faith as trust. We all trust in things all the time. We trust that the restaurant cook is not contaminating our food; we trust that the cars in the opposite lane will not cross over and kill us; we trust that our medication is good for us even though all of these things have instances where the very thing we trust will not happen really does occur and yet we continue to trust. Faith comes easy to people in many areas of life. Especially in areas where our control of situations is limited.

 

[Lincsong]

Lincsong, I am a bit confused by the useage of the term "faith". In the context given, it more closely seems like a sort of self-determination to achieve a goal or accomplish something. (But many of the replies given seem to be about religious faith, as in believing in God.)

This thread is not about religious faith. I never intended it to be and don't intend it to go in that direction. What I intended this thread to be about was using persistence in order to achieve faith in oneself in order to achieve a set of goals and overcoming obstacles.

So if a person sets out to achieve a goal, how persistent will that person be, and what types of persistence does he use in order to achieve his goal?

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Persistence.

That is the key to faith, "religious" or "otherwise".
One has to believe unwaveringly. One moment of doubt will ruin everything.

 

[carebear]

"Every day you may make progress. Every step may be fruitful. Yet there will stretch out before you an ever-lengthening, ever-ascending, ever-improving path. You know you will never get to the end of the journey. But this, far from discouraging, only adds to the joy and glory of the climb."

"Never give in! Never give in! Never, never, never. Never -- in anything great or small, large or petty -- never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense."

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."

Winston Churchill was big on persistance and will.