Pocketwatches

[William Stratford]

Very generous of you both, thankyou. But yes she is rather pretty

 

[Shangas]

From what I can see, it's a very nice watch. Not the best mechanical quality, but it's certainly not the worst.

 

[tealseal]

I'll show mine, and ask questions too!

Hello all,
Here are the two pocketwatches I own (click for bigger).
First up, a Hamilton I found at an antique dealer who was liquidating his stock as he was getting set to retire. From what I can tell, it's 17 jewel, but don't know much else, since I'm still new to these things. Hence the questions that I hope you can answer for me:
1) How can I figure out how old it is?
2) There are other markings on the movement that I don't fully understand, such as "5 Positions Adjusted" and "Double Roller"
3) How durable are these vintage watches? I understand that they probably shouldn't be subjected to a 5 mile run or other such shocks, but to what extent can they handle the shocks and jostles of the day-to-day in a man's life? How do they handle dusty environments? Heat? Altitude?





Next up, my "daily driver" since I'm worried about taking my Hamilton out with me (see question #3). It's a stainless steel Victorinox with Quartz movement, 50 m water resistance.


This is my broken chain. Anyone have a good way to fix it? The spring-ring is fine, but it's missing the ability to attach to a watch!


Pocket watches are cool, and I would love to acquire more, but I don't yet have enough knowledge about them to avoid getting taken. However, the more I read here and elsewhere online, the more I know. By far, you Loungers are the best resource!!

 

[MRxHILLBILLY]

Can anyone recommend a good place to have a face replaced and watch cleaned by mail?

 

[MRxHILLBILLY]

Can anyone tell me the brand of pocketwatch in the post by volatile at the top of page 13?

 

[Shangas]

Hello all,
Here are the two pocketwatches I own (click for bigger).
First up, a Hamilton I found at an antique dealer who was liquidating his stock as he was getting set to retire. From what I can tell, it's 17 jewel, but don't know much else, since I'm still new to these things. Hence the questions that I hope you can answer for me:
1) How can I figure out how old it is?
2) There are other markings on the movement that I don't fully understand, such as "5 Positions Adjusted" and "Double Roller"
3) How durable are these vintage watches? I understand that they probably shouldn't be subjected to a 5 mile run or other such shocks, but to what extent can they handle the shocks and jostles of the day-to-day in a man's life? How do they handle dusty environments? Heat? Altitude?




Pocket watches are cool, and I would love to acquire more, but I don't yet have enough knowledge about them to avoid getting taken. However, the more I read here and elsewhere online, the more I know. By far, you Loungers are the best resource!!

The date of the watch can be determined with fair accuracy using the SERIAL NUMBER ON THE MOVEMENT.

I forget what the "Double Roller" is. "5 Positions Adjusted" means that the watch has been tuned to keep perfect time in five positions. Dial up, dial down, crown up, crown down, etc, etc, etc (If I recall correctly, there's a total of six positions).

These watches are pretty tough. So long as you don't abuse them and smash them around too much, they should last well enough. For daily walkabout use, there's no real issues that you should worry about. Just make sure you don't whack it up against something hard, drop it and break it, etc. But for daily use, once it's been serviced by a watchmaker, it should do just fine.

 

[Big Fella]

Try James Ricotta: 814-342-3709. He has provided that service for me.

 

[tealseal]

Thank you, Shangas! That's a big help. Looks like the serial number is 1110831 to me; does this mean 1912? Since the movement only says "5 positions," I guess I can assume that there is one position in which its timekeeping will suffer. Thanks also for the reassurance about its durability. I'll be a bit less fearful about wearing it!
Is it possible to attach a leather strap to it, or is it "chain only" ?

 

[Shangas]

You can put a strap on it if you wish. Don't worry about the whole adjusted positions thing, a watch of this quality should keep time in any position, regardless. The markings are just a sign of extra quality.

 

[tealseal]

You can put a strap on it if you wish. Don't worry about the whole adjusted positions thing, a watch of this quality should keep time in any position, regardless. The markings are just a sign of extra quality.

Perhaps there are two kinds of leather strap? I can't see how a wider one would fit on the Hamilton, since it doesn't have a nice wide bow like the Swiss. Thanks for the education! I appreciate your patience answering all my queries

 

[TomS]

I have tried to, but they wont seem to upload

Aha.....

Here is the movement...I'm still trying to get the case image sorted

Ok, face as well.....

aaaand case

I'd say very early 20th century. 1900-1920 would be my guess.

 

[William Stratford]

I'd say very early 20th century. 1900-1920 would be my guess.

That appears to be the concensus opinion; although I do wish that I could locate a means of cross-checking the serial number, just to confirm the age (I can be a bit OCD on such details at times ).

 

[Shangas]

To my knowledge, British watchmakers did not keep extensive records of manufacture, as did the Americans. From what I've seen, Americans date stuff via serial-numbers and production-runs. British watches are typically dated by hallmarks...but of course, for there to be a mark, there has to be something WORTH marking...This not being a solid gold case, there's obviously no hallmarks there...

 

[William Stratford]

To my knowledge, British watchmakers did not keep extensive records of manufacture, as did the Americans. From what I've seen, Americans date stuff via serial-numbers and production-runs. British watches are typically dated by hallmarks...but of course, for there to be a mark, there has to be something WORTH marking...This not being a solid gold case, there's obviously no hallmarks there...

Would the case itself be datable, given that it is an american "Russell model" Illinois case which implies the correct (Thos Russell) movement is inside it?

 

[Shangas]

Essentially...no.

I said the watchMAKERS kept records of their manufacturing. NOT the CASEmakers. There is a big difference.

You must remember, in this period of history, you didn't go to a jeweller's shop and say: "I'll take that nice watch on the red cushion for $50, please".

You picked out the movement first, and then you were shown a selection of empty watch-cases. You picked out the case you wanted, and the jeweller would put the two together for you and you'd pay for the whole thing when it was done.

And since the case is just a housing for the watch itself (the movement), little thought was given to keeping records of cases. As a result, very few (if ANY!) survived.

So no, it's not possible to date the watch from the serial-number on the case. At any rate, cases and movements chopped and changed a lot over the years.

 

[William Stratford]

Ah, hey ho

 

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, Gentlemen,

I am a lover of pocket watches, but most of mine are from the 18th century, the oldest being from 1690. In the last few years, I've become interested in Railroad watches, and others from that era. The one I carry most if an 1871, 15 jewel, H.Z. Culver from Elgin, and it still keeps very good time to this day. I believe that it may have originally been offered with a hunter case, but mine is in an open face, silveroid case, and that works OK for me. Lately, I've found a few more, including a 1902, 17 jewel, Waltham Appleton, Tracy and Co; a circa 1908, 21 jewel, Ball Watch Co, Official Standard; and the one which currently resides in my watch pocket, an 1896, 17 jewel Hampden Watch Co. Railway Special, in a sterling silver case, and keeping very fine time.

My thoughts on picking up a pocket watch for daily wear, is to spend a bit of time looking around, and educating yourself a bit to what you really need, and what you should be seeking. You might consider joining the NAWCC (National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors), which, like The Fedora Lounge, is a great place to get a good education and get your questions answered. Plus, outstanding deals can be found at the National and Regional Shows, which used to be closed to the public, but which are now open to one and all. Get a copy of the latest issue of "Complete Guide to Watches", which is sort of like a Blue Book for pocket and wristwatches, and should help you keep from making a nasty mistake in buying such a thing. Otherwise, do as you are doing, and seek info and suggestions from those that have already trod the path to pocket watch enjoyment.

Just for grins, here are some photos of a very early 18th century pocket watch in my small collection, made in 1732 by Parkes and King, in London, along with a 1720 Queen Anne, screw-barrel pistol, made by Robert Harvey (a Gunmaker to the King), and in fantastic condition. If this works, I'll post four photos, in all, and I hope you will find them enjoyable and interesting. By the way, the watch still keeps fairly good time, for verge fusee (chain drive) watch of that vintage, and the pistol is very tight and eminently shoot-able, though I shall not do so.

If you have any questions, please let me know and I'll do my best to answer them. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

[Don Dahlberg]

William,

I agree with the first decade of the 20th century for your watch. The style of case could be from 1870s to 1915, but the fact that it is the Swiss version of a 16 size watch suggests post 1900.

Don

 

[dnjan]

Paul's Watch and Clock Repair

Just wanted to post a recommendation for Paul's Watch and Clock Repair.
Two weeks ago I accidentally dropped my Jean Marcel pocketwatch (not vintage, but I love it anyway!).
Stopped dead.
Exactly two weeks after sending my watch across the country to Paul's (I'm currently in Pittsburgh and he is in California), I had it back, good as new! And at a very fair price.

I had first sent this watch to Paul's a few years ago to have the dial re-done (at the recommendation of fellow FL'ers), and he did a great job with it. So instead of trying to find a local shop, get recommendations, etc., I went with someone I trusted.

Considering that most of the time the watch was out of my hands it was either a weekend or in transit, I am really amazed at the fast turnaround.

 

[Talbot]

Greetings, Gentlemen,

I am a lover of pocket watches, but most of mine are from the 18th century, the oldest being from 1690. In the last few years, I've become interested in Railroad watches, and others from that era. The one I carry most if an 1871, 15 jewel, H.Z. Culver from Elgin, and it still keeps very good time to this day. I believe that it may have originally been offered with a hunter case, but mine is in an open face, silveroid case, and that works OK for me. Lately, I've found a few more, including a 1902, 17 jewel, Waltham Appleton, Tracy and Co; a circa 1908, 21 jewel, Ball Watch Co, Official Standard; and the one which currently resides in my watch pocket, an 1896, 17 jewel Hampden Watch Co. Railway Special, in a sterling silver case, and keeping very fine time.

My thoughts on picking up a pocket watch for daily wear, is to spend a bit of time looking around, and educating yourself a bit to what you really need, and what you should be seeking. You might consider joining the NAWCC (National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors), which, like The Fedora Lounge, is a great place to get a good education and get your questions answered. Plus, outstanding deals can be found at the National and Regional Shows, which used to be closed to the public, but which are now open to one and all. Get a copy of the latest issue of "Complete Guide to Watches", which is sort of like a Blue Book for pocket and wristwatches, and should help you keep from making a nasty mistake in buying such a thing. Otherwise, do as you are doing, and seek info and suggestions from those that have already trod the path to pocket watch enjoyment.

Just for grins, here are some photos of a very early 18th century pocket watch in my small collection, made in 1732 by Parkes and King, in London, along with a 1720 Queen Anne, screw-barrel pistol, made by Robert Harvey (a Gunmaker to the King), and in fantastic condition. If this works, I'll post four photos, in all, and I hope you will find them enjoyable and interesting. By the way, the watch still keeps fairly good time, for verge fusee (chain drive) watch of that vintage, and the pistol is very tight and eminently shoot-able, though I shall not do so.

If you have any questions, please let me know and I'll do my best to answer them. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Doc,

More pics please.I love the intricacy of the early ovements. By co-incidence, my watchmaker was demonstrating a fusee movement to me the other day. Fascinating!

Beautiful firearm. I take it you unscrew the barrel to load it?

Talbot